Komplete Kontrol and Instrument Automation

Hi there!

Know this has been asked about, but not sure any clear solution. The way that Komplete Kontrol works (with the A49 keyboard, at least) is: it automaps knobs to specific parameters. However, when in this mode, it does NOT send Midi CC information. After some research, I believe it sends “automation” information.

I have been able to add an “*instrument automation” device onto a track, select a parameter I know maps to a knob. Moving the knob then is reflected in the movement of the slider. HOWEVER - it will NOT record this movement, either pattern or into slider envelopes.

Any suggested workarounds here? It’s frustrating to get to the point where I can see the sliders move, but not being able to actually record automation movement. Maybe some script that takes the movement of sliders and converts that to some sort of recordable data?

Any help most appreciated!!!

@t35513r. As a basic explanation, a midi device (hardware) uses a channel to send a parameter each time its state changes. In the case of a knob, or a fader, it is handling a range of 0 to 127 values (128 total values). In the beginning, it does not matter what brand and what product you are using. It is a standard.

With Komplete Kontrol A49 you should be able to do these steps (I use a similar MIDI keyboard, initially it is valid for all):

  1. Select a track, add the “Meta”: “Instr. Automation” within the DSP chain, bellow. With it you can automate any VST instrument that is compatible. Select your VSTi.
  2. With the right mouse button you can use the sliding bars to automate (both in the pattern editor and in the automation editor, using the dedicated button).
  3. But another way is through the MIDI input. To do this press CTRL + M (you must have your midi keyboard linked in Preferences / MIDI), you select the sliding bar of the parameter to be automated and you use the knob on your MIDI keyboard to link with this parameter. Press CTRL + M again.
  4. With the edit mode activated, you can now automate. Repeat the steps to link the knobs to others parameters.

Hi Raul!

Thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out. An extremely clear explanation of how to assign controllers (and didn’t realize that the CNTRL + M was a shortcut for this)!

Unfortunately, the issue with Komplete Kontrol (VST) is, when the A49 keyboard is being used as, essentially, a control surface for it, it does NOT send Midi CC information into Renoise. The Komplete Kontrol plugin will receive knob movement but Renoise does not read this as Midi CC data (nor does it recognize movements of knobs as Midi CC).

What it DOES do is recognize the movement of sliders in the *instrument automation - however, as above, you can not RECORD these movements. Presumably b/c Renoise is not receiving any sort of CC data to record.

I’m wondering if there is some sort of script that records movement of sliders (graphically) and then can convert that into data that can be recorded? Seems hacky but maybe a potential workaround. . .

Have you looked in the MIDI tab, in Monitor, if in the “MIDI IN” frame appears information with all the checkboxes activated when you use your MIDI keyboard?

If the Monitor frame is not filled with data, there is nothing to do. You should find out if the keyboard model is really MIDI. That is, if it is capable of sending CC data. It seems an exclusive invention of NI to use its software.

Hi Raul!

Thanks, yes, that’s how I know that it’s not receiving CC data.

Oh, it’s absolutely a midi keyboard. In fact, you can even override the syncing w/ Komplete Kontrol software by pressing “Shift” + “Midi” to have it function as a “standard” midi keyboard. It then would function like any midi keyboard, sending cc messages and whatnot. What you lose out on is many of the touted features of Komplete Kontrol - e.g., having a pre-mapped set of controls per instrument, use of the arp and scale functions (though these can be manually turned on if you like). There are other advantages that I won’t waste space on here.

Again, as above: I know that using the Komplete Kontrol software forces the keyboard to not send midi CC information into Renoise. Although I can take the keyboard out of this mode, I don’t want to, as I want to use the features includes w/ the software.

It’s more of a question about Komplete Kontrol in some ways than it is about the keyboard. Suspect there is no “built in” solution but probably some sort of tool or script that might help here. . .

You can configure your midi keyboard for CC shipments and map Renoise in the usual way. For the Komplete Kontrol VSTi software, you use the Automation Instrument, in the DSP chain of your track. You will be able to control the VSTi. This is how I do it with Kontakt.

This is a little confusing, but you can control the DAW and the VSTi at the same time only using CC data. It is only necessary to map everything. Then save your XRNM MIDI configuration file.

Hi Raul!

lol I think maybe something is being lost in communication. I understand that an Automation Instrument in the DSP chain would be a way of tracking changes in automations. What I’m saying is: in order for this to be recorded in Renoise, Renoise has to be receiving CC messages. And use of the Komplete Kontrol software causes the midi keyboard to not send CC messages (though automation changes are reflected in the sliders).

Yes, I understand that forcing the keyboard into a state where it sends midi CC information would allow me to manually map to the Komplete VSTi. However, in doing so, I would lose the things that make the VSTi useful in the first place. It’s ok. And I really do appreciate your trying to help, I just think that I’m not explaining the question/challenge correctly. . . .

Yes, I understand that when you use the Komplete Kontrol, Renoise does not receive CC shipments, and vice versa. If you use your Komplete Kontrol software, it is not possible to do anything with a script because Renoise does not receive the MIDI CC data. Either you use one thing or you use another. To make a tool, Renoise would need to receive that CC data.

Does not the keyboard have a button to change behavior? Control Komplete Kontrol, press a button and already send CC data to control from Renoise’s MIDI mapping. That is, control by turns …

Hiya. Ok, yes friend, I can do that but, again, that utterly undermines the point of the software. I’m looking for a more advanced workaround here. lol, I think I probably should not have posted this in the “beginner’s questions.” E.g., here’s a hacky workaround I figured out last night that I really need to test more:

See the tool here: https://www.renoise.com/tools/gui-automation-recorder

This tool captures GUI movements and writes them in to automation lanes. It’s designed to capture mouse movements of GUI elements but I thought that, possibly, it would work for the movement of the knobs in Komplete Kontrol (since, in a way, what I’m doing is moving those knobs, and wanting to capture their movement).

In fact, it absolutely DOES capture this. However, it’s fairly convoluted to set up and use (and I need to test it more). So, again, wondering if there were other scripts/tools that might be useful here.

If not, it’s fine - again, possibly this is not appropriate for the “beginner’s questions” thread :slight_smile:

You can contact directly with @ffx . He is an expert with these tools. Or ask in the forum about tools. Luck in your search. However, the “tool solution” is probably uncomfortable to control, because it is not purposely thought about in this specific case. That makes you discard it. I believe that the supposed tool should be set up for this case (for this hardware and software)…