Layering drums - phase cancellation


(lilith) #1

I wonder how you layer drums, e.g. by adding a sine wave for the low end on top of an other sample. It would be cool if it would be possible to show two samples at the same time to adjust the phase, etc… Is this possible with Renoise or how do you do that?


(ffx) #2

I think any visual will not help you much here, or does it?. You should instead do a audio A/B check maybe, and if one of the samples is stereo, this while mono master output.

You could use the scopes maybe. I myself set the scopes to a much “slower” value, so I actually can see the waveform scrolling (even if the FPS is low then), by altering the Renoise config:

<MasterScopeWidthInSamples>16384</MasterScopeWidthInSamples>
    <TrackScopeWidthInSamples>16384</TrackScopeWidthInSamples>

Oh, actually maybe the phase meter could help you here. I cannot really wrap my head around it, using it properly.


(lilith) #3

I think any visual will not help you much here, or does it?. You should instead do a audio A/B check maybe, and if one of the samples is stereo, this while mono master output.

You could use the scopes maybe. I myself set the scopes to a much “slower” value, so I actually can see the waveform scrolling (even if the FPS is low then), by altering the Renoise config:

<MasterScopeWidthInSamples>16384</MasterScopeWidthInSamples>
<TrackScopeWidthInSamples>16384</TrackScopeWidthInSamples>

Cool , didn’t know this is possible! I will try this, thanks!


(Zer0 Fly) #4

Hey! I layer lots of. Usually for example a natural (break…) bassdrum, and a synthetic to fatten up the bottom end, maybe also a click to make the bassdrum attack sharper and more present.

My trick is to use the chorus device without modulation in the instrument fx to delay the parts. Each layer part goes to another fx channel. Then I use the chorus 100% wet and zero% depth, and adjust the delay. Normally I go by ear, until it sounds right. You can hold ctrl while moving the delay slider to make fine adjustments. You could also use the channel delays if your parts are each another channel in the mixer.

Another trick to find the right delay, is to render the sounds as they are layered in unperfect way, and use the sample editor to find the exact spacing between the peaks or the phase of dominant frequencies in milliseconds - these distances can be adjusted with the chorus device or the track delays.

Also another hint - these proper delays are not only helpful with syncing layered parts, but also to delay each drum in a drumkit with different values. i.e. have the hihat direct, and delay the bassdrum and the snare each with differen values. As the transients get spread apart from each other, it is possible for the listener to distinguish the individual hits more clearly. Also it can add a little funkyness to the beat, or make the bass attack distinguishable from a parallel bassdrum attack, etc…


(Same Freaky Sound) #5

I prefer using VST oscilloscope likeJ-Scopeand if needed a Sync track.

I use a lot for phase check on kick and bass, so usualy i put oscilloscope on master and soloing kick, bass and a sync.

A sync track its very easy to do in Renoise, just select an empty instrument slot and focus on Sampler than click on Create button and set properties to:

Number of Samples: 1

Channels: mono

Sample rate: lowest

Bit depth: lowest

Draw a line with Draw tool to top, set Volume to 12, and HPClean to modulation set with full up value, same for resonance.

Now fill an empty track with note (same as kick drum).

Hope its clear and help you :slight_smile:


(ffx) #6

Then I use the chorus 100% wet and zero% depth, and adjust the delay.

Oh wow, never thought about using chorus for a delay! That’s more easy than using delay devices. Thanks for the tip.


(LofiMat) #7

Very good tips in here. I work similar as the mentioned above using thishttp://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 to check the output. works great.


(Same Freaky Sound) #8

Very good tips in here. I work similar as the mentioned above using thishttp://bram.smartelectronix.com/plugins.php?id=4 to check the output. works great.

Absolutely, was my favourite for long time :slight_smile:


(lilith) #9

Thanks for the tips. I’ll play around with the suggestions. As I’m on Linux I can’t use the mentioned VSTs.


(Jesse Schilling) #10

If you are wanting to create a handful of kicks at once for later use, an external editor such as Audacity is another way to go. you can load up all of your samples that you want to layer, check for phase issues, and use many available LADSPA, Nyquist, LV2, plugins since you are on Linux. Then just export as WAV or FLAC and load up your custom kick/drum in Renoise for real-time modulations FX.