Live Looping With Renoise

Dear Renoise team,

don’t know whether U would interest, but just for sure…and since there is opportunity with new beta…

I’ve tried to use rns as live stage looper (hope U know what it means…). There are few “minor” issues with this that makes live looping impossible and by changing rns features a bit, you can turn rns into incredible machine such as Korg kaosspad KP3 or BOSS loop station and so one :wink: but with unlimited possibilities that rest of rns offers (because there is always some “but” with HW loopers).

first, if there would be possible to record to sampler from “track” and not from some “virtual” input, one can record send track or master track (any track) and create nice overdubs. One can also put line-in device into track and effect would be same as it works now.

lets use recording with sync start&stop with pattern for following explanation.

once new sample is recorded, it always resets loop type in instrument to none and worse, if you want to synchronize recording with track length and you want to trigger recorded instrument at pattern start (by putting note on at start of pattern track), you get only silence for first run after record end and you get sound after second pattern “round”. Note on is simply ignored after record end event.
There are few options how to handle this: either leave instrument sample play even when sample is replaced with new sample (and when it is note on and playing) because sample size is same. Or don’t forget to play first note on in track immediately after record end. Anyway I think that instrument loop type should remain same after recording new sample. One can also click note on immediately after record end but this will fail because currently instrument loop type is reset, so new loop is played only once. And also there might be time delay between record end and note on events.

also would be nice to have sample record and edit “undo” as key (clear last overdub)

when looping and recording, one usually needs to save couple of “phrases” and then jump between them. Currently rns supports jump to first and last pattern in pattern sequencer. If there would be possible to jump to #1, #2, #3,… track pattern it would be great.
no visual controls, just shortcut key.

different phrases can have different length and can play different instruments with different loop/sample length, so once U jump to phrase #2, U have to change instrument to #8 for example, but this wouldn’t be problem I think.

also, when sampler recording is on run, one can’t jump between track patterns now. Switch to pattern editor is necessary then jump and then back to record,… takes to much time. If recording will remain active when pattern editor is active,… would be nice (means make record on and off global shortcut). Or CC mapping to record on off ?

also missing so much tempo tap button. if you click such “button” the interval between your clicks is used to set song BPM. And also tempo up and tempo down function on key would be nice. There is no necessary to create any visual control for this (eg. button), only key assignment or CC would be enough.

if you will find something mentioned above as useful I will appreciate it. I think that turning tracker into looper and combine both would be nice idea.

ok, I’ve tried more with looping after some tactic suggestions and,…

first very promising looking ableton live 8, with new looper changes pitch during song tempo change + all ableton oldskool disadvantages = totaly useless, so back to rns :wink:

rns and vst (vsti)…
almost each looper has sync problem when rns pattern stop, start event or tempo change…
and it seems that midi cc device can control only vsti, not vst effects, I am I right ?
(so I cant send sysex from track to vst looper)

at least I’ve resolved live record start and play issue in rns,…
instead of play recorded sample by first note only in pattern track I put note to each line and use effect command 09 (00-ff range), works great !! no clicks and cracklings, no sound interuptions and one extra benefit is, that pitch is NOT changed when tempo change !!! this works like korg kp3!!!
With rns one can choose wheter pitch will or will NOT change by checking sync in instrument !!! GREAT.

but then,… there is no way how to make overdubs ;-(
it is difficult and unstable even with vst loopers on background in track, at least because vst uses midi cc and rns uses pc keyboard to control (causes sync problems), plus stability probs plus integration problems.

and worse, there is no way how to record eg. 64 lines into instrument #1 and then immediately record next 64 lines into next instrument (without wait 64 lines until new record can be activated.
I am I wrong ? is there something I missed ?

ok, I am trying to find some usefull setup and till now I found following possibilities:

either to enable record from track (not only tracks effects), which is not resolving that much but might be usefull with following…

something like new switch that would work together with record sync start&stop that will allow to create new instrument on each pattern repeat when sync start&stop is on ?
create “record” effect command (record start and record stop or toggle record). command might work only when record will be active. only single record command can be active in same time.
as I notified, when you will change instrument manually during recording, new sample is placed into last instrument you selected…
This can be easy to implement and can simulate overdubs by puting each take (overdub) into new instruments that will play in prepared tracks. This gives great level of freedom to everybody.

my ideas are still far from something that would work and will be usefull…

anyway, it seems that sampling live into instrument is best ever option and thats what korg kp3 do. One can prepare patterns with various effects (various type of sample shift that simulates short delay with quick rythm) and then just jump between “labeled” patterns, on and off overdubs, change tempo, apply effects,…etc

if anybody is interested in looping, here is very nice demo with korg kp3 :wink:

rns is very close to do something like this with one device only (eee pc 901) !



I haven’t actually tested if i send CC messages to a VST effect, that it also gets them, but this you can do:
-Add effect to track
-Go to an instrument slot
-Select the VST instrument panel in the instrument section and open the VST instrument drop-downlist
-Select VST FX Alias and select your effect
-Go to the Automation devices in the DSP Fx list -> Add MIdi Control Device
-Select your VST Fx Alias instrument

You probably need a specific VST FX plugin that can receive some CC messages, i don’t have a plugin that can do this.

thanx for reply vV,

seems that midi Cc works with vst too, …if anybody is interested here is a setup:
get some vst effect that accepts midi cc, in my “looping” case eg. GLoop(, or LoopyLlama from Rekline (google it)

in rns put “line in” device into track 01
put midi control device into track 01
put Gloop into effects into track 01 (Gloop doesn’t work without “line in” device before it!)
select instrument that U want to use with this effect
goto instrument settings, in VST instrument properties, in Instrument combo select VST FX alias: Gloop (Device:0xy)
then goto back to track DSP’s and in midi CC device select linked instrument: VST FX alias GLoop…

ok now “wire” setup is done and now to drive vst effect U must put some “commands” into track rows

select your instrument with VST FX, run pattern edit mode (esc)
put C-4xy … C0 51FF in first row of your track 01 (xy is No. of your vst fx linked instrument)
there MUST be some note (C-4xy), not only effect (C0 in pan column) and CC No. and Cc Value together in effect column.
just for sure, Cc No. 51 is default value for record/overdub in GLoop.

ok, this works fine for me.
I can drive looper from running pattern.
Now I have to thoroughly test if time synchronization is ok and if there is any chance to arrange vst looper to record overdubs back to renoise sampler, where is possible to do all the looping magic.

GLoop, LoopyLlama, Elottronix XL, Zone Mobius… all of available VST(i) loopers are very limited in functionality comparing to korg kp3 or renoise sampler.
none of them can for example change tempo, chop the loop into synced chunks played in different order, retrigger play loop from start (LoopyLlama can but it is very unstable),…

I’ll be back later with results