Lost Aftertouch Data

Hi All!

I expecting some troubles with my drum module setup.
Have a TD12 unit and cannot record an aftertouch messages. CC and MIDI notes all is passing normally.
(Aftertouch is needed for implementing a cymball choke function on Roland drum modules).
At MIDI Preference tab all messages options is checked.
TD12 unit is connected via midi cable to RME FF UC.

Tried to use a MIDI OX to check incoming messages before host - it comes all (and aftertouch too then I squeeze a pad’s edge).
In Renoise I used a MIDIMonitor VST plugin to see all messages inside host - aftertoch is absend.

Also I have an old keyboard (M Audio Axiom) connected via USB to laptop - it sends an aftertouch in Renoise without a problem…

P.S. Using Renoise 2.8.0. Such behavior was with Roland TD-9 unit too…just cannot understand why… :wacko:

maybe renoise for some reason sets a note-off before receiving the aftertouch data? do you notice any extra note-off on the pattern?

I tried a TD-20 with a previous version of Renoise some years ago and I remember that a lot of note-off’s were produced

I’ve noticed what TD-12 module continuously send a Timing Clock and a Active Sensing events.

What about Note Off - Module sending a Note Off as soon as you hit a pad (after Note On event).
Aftertouch transmits when you squeeze a pad’s edge - it goes after Note Off or it may be sending without any notes at all.
Does Renoise can receive aftertouch only between Note On and Off?

P.S. On MIDI keyboard you cannot send aftertouch without sending and holding a note but on drums it seems you can do this.

try if disabling the note-off recording from Renoise MIDI options menu helps

Disabling Note Offs (in Preference, MIDI tab, Record&Play Filter) don’t make any changes with aftertouch. It only removes an Off recordings in patterns.
Maybe it needs to prevent the Note Off messages from going to Renoise (block it before soundcard)?

I found interesting device - MIDISolutions Event Processor (http://www.midisolutions.com/prodevp.htm#). Seems what it can hardwarely filtering incoming MIDI (also transforming, routing MIDI data and much more).
But before make a decision to buy such “magic” box, it somehow needs to know first what the problem is with Note offs…

you could use a software which does the same MIDI filtering. Maybe the aforementioned MidiOX can do this? Virtual Midi Cable should also be able to do it

I’ll try it all… Thanks.

Tried MIDIOX with loopbe1 (virtual midi patchcord) and get a very strange result.

VST MIDI monitor inside Renoise shows Note Offs before Note Ons now. First note comes without Note Off, and all the next notes starting with Note Offs now and get a new column in pattern editor each (up to 12)…(seems what each Note Off revealing a new column coz’ think, what an old note still holding)
MIDI monitor shows a receiving aftertouch now, but it cannot be recorded in patterns anyway (just like it was earlier).
I fought what I can fool Renoise, but Renoise fools me…fail.
<_< :mellow: :wacko:

does the TD send channel aftertouch or Poly aftertouch do you know. ?
and is Renoise capable of recording poly aftertouch.

Try it out i should say. It is capable of sending poly aftertouch, so i suspect it should as well be capable of recording it, but i don’t have such device to test it.

TD-12 manual says, what module can transmit key’s aftertouch (for drum part only).
(for example M-Audio Axiom keyboard can transmit only Channel Aftertouch).
If I understand it right - key’s aftertouch is the poly aftertouch.

Seems what Renoise can catch an aftertouch message only if it is between note on and note off events (or note on 127 and note on 0).
Keyboard send note on first and note off at last, then you release the key (it is the normal use).
Drum module send both messages at the same time. I tried to block second message by MIDI filter, and it worked but not so good (create each time a new collumn on each new note up to 12)…

Which seems quite logical, what should an aftertouch do when a note-off event has already been broadcasted?
Assumed here is that a note-off can not be send earlier then when the key is fully released.

No, that only works if you could teach the midi filter to swap the messages rather than blocking them (Renoise still is waiting for a note-off event for earlier striked notes, as long as it doesn’t receive them, it creates a new note column when a new note on event enters the track), but perhaps you can program the drum computer to reverse this logic to the expected logic rather than trying to filter out the message?

When i inspect the midi message implementation of the TD12, it speaks of Key pressure, which sounds like channel pressure.
In Renoise this is a mono interpretation, not a poly interpretation. Though the TD12 allows poly key pressure if that is really the case.
M3 - Channel pressure (monophonic after-touch) (yy = pressure amount).

Exactly my thoughts. Aftertouch can not really apply to a note that isn’t currently playing (has received a Note Off) and letting go of a key, to generate the Note Off, pressing it again to achieve Aftertouch is going to play a new note. Even though it could be argued it could apply to Release tails there is no way it could be played on a real instrument, therefore I wouldn’t really expect it to be received/recorded.

I would say the exact opposite. It says Key Pressure (pressure on that particular key) not Channel Pressure. Thus I would expect it to be polyphonic aftertouch.

Especially as it even calls it Polyphonic Key Pressure! And gives the format it comes in, with Note Number as part of the specification. ;)