so? why would I give a fuck about that? that’s all just ad-hominens. wake me up when any actual responses came in.
You bring nothing to the discussion but yourself, and do so loudly as if the self is an absolute.
Honestly, I avoid threads you participate in because I’ve been reading them since 2006. They just get louder, more obnoxious, and more self-referential.
The original poster had a question, you derailed it into some personal fight with “the system” because someone disagreed with you. Now the original question is long gone ands this thread is, somehow, now about you. Same old same old.
EDIT: I’m having a bad hair day
Music theory is hex, so it must also be pretty damn funky and all that jazz.
Well we’re talking about music theory as in “the theory of musical composition” rather than the theory behind production techniques.
But knowing theory of composition and arrangement helps in production as well, where voices sit in the arrangement and in the mix it’s all one in the end.
Johann; you are the only one suggesting making music and learning music theory are mutually exclusive. ( How else would you learn theory without listening to and making music?! )
Reading books 
Not many people who learned music theory actually MAKE music.
Hell, some don’t even play an instrument
Hmm, but where exactly am I suggesting that? The poster didn’t ask for music theory, he asked for advice on making music.
When someone said “but how do you then know what sounds good?” I said “by having ears”, and then got the reply that that is elitist, implying that you first have to learn it theoretically before you can be good at it… and other such BS…
I’m not saying they’re mutually exclusive, just that they’re not connected at all.
[[but yeah, you can’t do two things at the same time… simple phyics… and I claim that learning about music theory is less useful for making music than, say, riding your bike or having sex. I stand behind that claim]]
When I say “time * passion = good music”, theory is not in that equation… I still am waiting for someone to directly contradict that. Instead I’m being told I don’t exist. YES, I know what music theory is, YES, I prolly forgot more about it than others will learn, NO, it did not help me one single bit with making music. Not one iota. But no, that can’t be… the only people “dissing” music theory are the clueless ones? Yeah. And that from someone of whom I couldn’t find ONE tune of. Blah-di-blah.
I do however know the situation the thread poster described, I know the feeling you’re not going anywhere… and I basically just said hang in there, don’t give in to the tempation to fake something (or making fucking dice music), just keep crawling – and before you know it you will walk. I cannot count the years it took me to become somewhat fluent in tracking, and here is someone using Renoise for a few weeks – and people talk about scales and making dance music with just one bass note? I’m exaggerating, but still, that’s kinda ill (in the bad way), so I made my point clear enough for anyone willing to dig it. The rest is all just for bw_conner’s benefit, who cherishes my every word 
Honestly, I’m not the one trying to start a war here, I’m innocent!
I freakin’ apologized! don’t drag me into this pathetic shit again 
yeah well haha, I was just recounting the events, that misunderstanding was part of it. and don’t apologize to me, I didn’t mind, apologize to yourself and everyone also who is annoyed by my rants 
I apologize to myself and everyone that is annoyed by Johann’s rants
It sucks that one can’t copy paste from this, but I find it remarkable that how we perceive music depends very much on our culture, it seems? Let’s assume that is so, then learning about “music theory” for your own music can serve you well, but only for kinda specific purposes… which don’t apply unless specifically mentioned.
So again, what’s the point, why even bother? Music needs to smash those ivory towers, or even better, outgrow them… but not, never sit there begging. Oops, off the tangent again haha…
Yeah, what notes are… 'n stuff… so it boils down to what someone said, “pythagoras”. And of course, keep using the software, check out VST fx and instruments, do weird stuff with samples. But music theory in the wider sense? puhlease…
Guys guys guys, relax…
Johann is right. In order to make music, you first make it… and then you use your ears to judge how it came out. Over time you fine tune your ears to know what’s good and what’s bad. There’s nothing elitist about it, everyone’s doing it (yes, even the cool kids).
It’s only when someone gets an elitist attitude that shit gets bad. So everyone, put down your Uzis and AKs, enough brothaz have been slayed. Pick up your mice and start tracking!
Being self taught I found myself picking up aspects of theory, not knowing it was theory, just by trial and error on a guitar when I was 15 though about 21 when I made the effort to seek out certain knowledge on my own.
I think it’s important to have at least some knowledge of music theory. Music is a language, after all, and I’m personally uncomfortable with the idea of attempting to speak a language without knowing a few phrases first.
Maybe that’s a bad analogy…
The reality of music is that it’s an art form so it’s really entirely up to you what you do with it. If you want to bury your head in theory and become a total nerd about it, great. If you want to bash shit at random and call yourself “experimental”, that’s your right. I’ve found a middle ground between these 2 points that works best for me and if I made a recommendation, it would be to do just that. Find your comfort zone.
Im self taught on guitar and keyboard - i rarely touch the guitar anymore and i mostly enter notes or chords with either the mouse or qerty keyboard.
I learnt guitar and keyboard from ‘teach yourself’ books - luckily there is many similar things on the internet for free nowadays.
Making music on the computer means i the user interface requires no playing skills but learning a few chords and playing them is a phsyical application of theory.
Music doesn’t have a definition that everyone agrees with - so if you were to go at the opposite end of the scale (hoho) to academic theory - you’d be whats known as experimental or perhaps modern art. although many will happily use the term music for any type of organised sound.
Learning a few chords and attempting to recreate or play music you are already familiar with might be a good start if you are lost - or even enter some of the many re-mix competitions that are online - which will help push to completing an arrangement.
But like radian has said - your making a sort of recording, there is only so much ‘sonic space’.
A rock band (drums, bass, guitar and vocals) will almost mix itself.
Having a jist of what sort of sounds will fit together before you start will save you some time rather than ended up with a pile of mush that won’t mix together.
Music theory is absolutely essential if you want to produce well.
I am amazed at how many people don’t understand what music theory actually is.
You know, most of the best artists in the world went to school and took design, and color theory clsses.
Music theory isn’t a set of rules to govern what you do. Its a toolset. Music is made up of rhythms, and similtaneously sounding pitches (chords) along with timbre and counterpoint and all other sorts of tools.
It is the SAME that a novelist probobly got their degree in english composition. Did that teach them what to write? Did it define what they could write about or make rules?
No. Of course not. That’s absurd. But it taught them how to develop characters, setting, mood, how to brainstorm and develop rewarding plots.
Its a tool, and I’d love to do a survey of how many professionals are here (people who make their living with music and only music) and ametures and how 98% of all those pros all know plenty of theory.
Music theory is really important, but it is no science. It teaches you how to walk and how to move into the universe of music, but then you must take your own decisions in order to be creative 
Learning the basiscs of harmony is not impossible, and you will enjoy it.
Then it comes the counterpoint and it’s a pain in the ass because of the many rules, but just keep in mind that some composers didn’t know about theory in the past because they CREATED it from theire experiences, so…we have lucky.
You also can lear some music composition and orchestration then you will be very professional 
Good luck 
i thoroughly advocate the following possible routes:
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learning as much about musique concrete as possible and making sure to use granular synths.
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copying the first few bars of a venetian snares song note for note until you get bored and loop it or fake the rest.
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substituting melodic content for gabba kick drums.
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obsessing over dub and making sure your music includes samples alluding to rastafarianism and ganja smoking to increase marketability for your target demographic.
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constructing a java application which randomly generates a suggested combination of 2 or 3 existing genres, and a suitable genre name with the ‘core’ suffix applicable for genres over 200bpms. alternatively taking an existing or forgotton genre and fitting it into an existing idiom which is currently popular without really changing it.
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mapping sound frequencies to colours and then combining the complimentary sounds (ie. purple and yellow), converting photography into noise and other techniques where the way in which you arrived at these sounds is facinatingly noteworthy but otherwise utterly intangible.
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being influence by prince.
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creating chiptune, according to the accepted regulations of properly imitating the hardware with the correct number of voices etc.
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making your electronic music more human by deliberately unquantising things and getting the notes to be out of tune sometimes.
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making mainstream trance or drum and bass exactly the way everyone else makes these genres at the point at which you are making it also.
rejecting the use of theory is probably a theory too. what theory are you using, really? and then what theory of others would you find useful to engulf with your bloated musical bodies? there are many theories… and they have a plan…
mostly these days I just try to make sure my sample is in tune with the note on the screen. then just duke it out with the computer.
or I just try plugging in the notes I have in my head, however long that takes, until I completely forget what I was doing.
It’s kinda like a game really.
try to figure out the tempo, timing, notes & progression, while having the whole thing in focus, without forgetting it. super hard to do, if you don’t physically record it somehow.
I haven’t won in a long time.
I come up with better progressions on string instruments than piano/percusion scheme.
basically with computer music it’s best not to try and make anything. just let the computer make itself music. be the carrier.