My Melody dont fits in the Pattern-Raster

Hello together!

I have the Problem that my actual Melody dont fits the tracker raster. i try to modify the bpm, and the LBP from 4 to 8 but then i must lowering the Songtempo at ridicolous values around 32 bpm. What must i do in Renoise to have that for instance:

Song 125 BPM 4/4 Takt
Trackerraster = Midi Noteraster 1/32 Notes and Renoise should Quantize like other DAW’s.

i have problems with the “off” Note too. Because on the playposition for next note i must place an “off” Note between, or it sound poor. Have anybody a suggestion for me?

happy Tracking

If I understand you correctly, you need LPB 8 for 1/32 notes.

Where the OFF event is, in the delay column put a value. This will delay the note off right until the last tick before the next note. If the next note is delayed also, then you can use its value for the preceding note off. Does that make sense?

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LPB 8, yes but on which bpm tempo in reason to reach the 125 BPM in other DAW’s??? And as i understand the lenght of a single LPB changes with BPM speed, or not???

The Groundproblem is that i set 3 notes. Then i change bpm that first & second note are in wished timespan. but if note 1 & 2 are fine, the third note i dont get fits to melody. it sound little bit to early in step, and in next step it is to late. and i cant fix that.

happy tracking

Do I understand you correctly? For example you have a 4/4 drum/bass pattern. And a 5/4 length melody?

You can increase the length of the pattern. Maybe this way it fits? But you’ll have to adjust your underlying instruments to fit the new pattern length.

You can split the melody over multiple patterns (this is what I do). Notes don’t stop at the end of the pattern unless you tell them to. So you can hold notes into the next pattern.

If that is too much hassle you can write the melody in a phrase. And it will carry it over the bar line into the next pattern for you. You can set it to loop, or not in the phrase editor.

Or maybe misunderstood you? If it is a quantizing the melody is the issue then the delay column is your friend.

Hope this helps!

i clearly didn’t understand sorry!
perhaps supply an example song - or is that not possible with your setup?
if not, then pictures :slight_smile:

125 BPM is 125 BPM regardless of your LPB Setting. What changes is how many lines represent 1 Bar in 4/4 musical timing and how long the playhead stays on a line.

1 LPB would mean 4 Lines are 1 Bar with each Line being 1/4 in length
8 LPB would mean 20 Lines are 1 Bar with each Line being 1/32 in length

when I write 20 Lines than it refers to hexadecimal counting, if you have set your lines to decimal counting you need 32 Lines for 1 Bar. 32 x 1/32 = 32/32 = 1 Bar :wink:

Default Pattern length can be changed in Song -> Song Options. If you want every Pattern to be 4 Bars long just but 128 here or 64 for 2 Bars etc…

Not to confuse you, but each line is made up on even finer steps called ticks, you can set how many ticks one line has in Song -> Song Options, this will change the sound of the Repeat effect for example and also allows you to make notes shorter than your LBP setting with the Cut Command, which Cuts Notes off after a certain amount of ticks, so if you are working in LPB 8 and you want to have a note that is shorter than your 1/32 step length, let’s say you want to have it be 1/64 and you have set your Ticks per Line to 12, than you would have to use C6 as an effect command to cut the note off after 6 ticks to have it be 1/64.

Also: If you recorded your melody with LPB 8 and then change your LBP, your melody will be out of sync and won’t automatically adapt to the new LBP setting (but renoise does offer a shrink/expand option so you can double your or half a selection of notes). Some Breakcore artists work in a high LPB Count like 16 or 32 btw, I think that’s mainly for timestretching effect using the Sxx command and in general i not necessary.

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when I write 20 Lines than it refers to hexadecimal counting, if you have set your lines to decimal counting you need 32 Lines for 1 Bar. 32 x 1/32 = 32/32 = 1 Bar

Ok that gives me some clearness, and some new question much new Questions. :smiley:
I will try somewhat now. Thx for all anwsers here mates.

btw. is there a function for timestretch my notes if i go from 4 LPB to 8? then i must not lowering the BPM, that would help me very much. And you mean 127 for Pattternlenght or? because it counts from 0 and not 1?

happy tracking

Go to ‘Samples’ tab and in the sample properties check the ‘Beatsync’ option and select the mode you want (Timestretch (texture) for notes will preserve pitch and melody).

Pattern length should be 128, not 127, but the last line will be called 127 because the pattern starts at 0.

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i dont use samples, only vst’s? and i want not pitch any sample, i only want the times between the notes from LPB4 measures at LPB8, so that i dont need lower BPM !!! So that the melody sounds in 8 LPB exact like in 4 LPB.

Well, a regular vst is not clocked to the lpb, only the bpm, so if you use an arpeggiator or sequencer and so on it shouldn’t change if you change the lpb. Lpb only says how many lines there should be in one beat regardless of the bpm.
I thought you wanted your sampled melody sequence to change when lpb changes, thus suggesting the beatsync option.
If you wanted to do this with a vst you would have to turn it into samples with the plugin grabber. If you use the beatsync texture mode it will not change the pitch, only the tempo. Of course not perfectly though, some reduction in sound quality has to be expected.

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Not helpful at all! If i do only change LPB, the Speed of played Notes or the timespan between notes can not allowed to change! The song have to play exact like at 4 LPB. The momentan behaviour ist complete senseless.

at momentan state if i change LPB i have to correct every single note of my song manually… muahahahah

very gooood joooke!

You can use the right side panel of the pattern editor to expand or shrink your patterns. I really don’t see why you would need to change the LPB at all in this case? If you explain better what you are trying to do and with which type of VST, then i might be able to help, but as of now i’m really not sure what you are trying to achieve? Could it be that there is a better approach to solve your problem? Is the sequencing being done in the VST or is it an instrument phrase or is it simply a regular pattern in the pattern edito which makes the melody?

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If I understand correctly, you have started programming a song, only to discover that you do not have sufficient “resolution” between note lines to continue properly expressing the rhythm/melodies you want to. You are stuck.

I have had this “problem” before plenty of times, especially in earlier days. The obvious solution is, next time choose LPB and BPM values that give you plenty of room. Lots of experienced people go insane with this and it makes me dizzy watching their patterns fly by.

I can think of several ways to correct this issue in the meantime, some of which have already been mentioned:

  1. Double the LPB, and half the BPM. If you are working with samples that are rhythmically synce’d, you need to make sure autosync is on before you do this or everything will get ruined.

  2. Phrase editor. Go into a sample or instrument, go to the “phrases” tab, and make a new phrase. You can separately change LPB here, so you can create your “complex melody” in the phrase editor with higher resolution, and then drop the whole phrase as a single note into the “lower resolution” pattern editor.

  3. Use FX/envelopes/modulation/note delays to create faster changes than the grid allows

  4. Bounce stems from tracks at any point and put them into a new document to solve these issues. It’s a good workflow in general.

With regard to the “note OFF” nuisance. You can simply set the polyphony of a track to 1 (if recording), or program into only 1 lane of a track (if not), then you won’t need to put the “off’s” in because the next note will stop the previous one.


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LPB give the Midi Note raster! 4 means 1/16 Note, 8 means 1/32 Note. If i create for instance in reason a melody with 1/16 notes and somewhat not fits in this raster, i can change easely to 1/32 Noteraster without getting a changed songtempo!!! It only changes the Noteraster and i only have to fix the unfitting 1/16 notes.

In Renoise a change from LBP means that you get a changes Songtempo and you have to edit all Notes again. (also the 1/16 that was fitting before)

Reducing of BPM Value to resolve this is not practicable, because then you get to low resolution for drum razors overlaps (the fastest are then to slow)

I think the problem you are running into here is thinking that a Tracker and a Piano Roll are identical; they are not. The following screenshots may help. Each screenshot has the same Notes, the same BPM (120), and each is showing one Measure (Bar). I have changed which line each note is on in each example to help illustrate what LPB means. Every one of these examples will sound identical.

  • This first example shows LPB=1. Each Beat is one Line. This is one Measure; each Line is one-fourth (1/4) of a Measure, and one (1/1) Beat.
  • This second example shows LPB=2. Now a Beat is made of two Lines. This is one Measure; each Line is one-eighth (1/8) of a Measure, and one-half (1/2) of a Beat.
  • This third example shows LPB=4. Now each beat is made up of 4 Lines. This is one Measure; each Line is one-sixteenth (1/16) of a Measure, and one-fourth (1/4) of a Beat.
  • This fourth example shows LPB=8. Now each Beat is made up of 8 Lines. This is one Measure; each Line is one-thirty-second (1/32) of a Measure, and one-eighth (1/8) of a Beat.

Now, if we go back to the third example (LPB=4) and change it to LPB=8, each note will remain on the same Line, but now each Beat is made up of 8 Lines, so it will appear as though the Tempo has changed; it has not. I now have two notes falling in each Beat. This Pattern now contains only half of a Measure.

Renoise_one-measure_LPB4_120BPM Renoise_one-measure_LPB4_changed-to-LPB8_120BPM

When you increase or decrease Lines Per Beat in a Pattern that contains Notes, you are not altering the Note, you are altering the duration of each Line. If I wanted this Pattern to sound the same, I could manually move each note onto each beat, or I could increase the number of Lines in the Pattern to 32 and then use the “Expand” Pattern Editor operation, which will move the Notes to each Beat by doubling the number of Lines between them.

I hope this helps. I may do the same example in Reaper’s Midi Editor (Piano Roll) to illustrate how Piano Rolls and Trackers work differently if anyone would be interested.


Thanks mate for your time to make such an extensive and vivid posting. i think i get it now. (hopefully) At least my Problem is gone now. The expand functions helps a lot. :slight_smile:

happy tracking

No problem! I’m glad it was helpful.

If you want to change the MIDI note raster, can you instead automate the “Instr. MIDI control” meta device perhaps?

I mentioned the expand function above, but i guess i didn’t make myself clear. :wink: