New filters: about the input gain ..and overdrive

As you can see by the included screenshots ,I was able to recreate /mimic the sallen key like resonance spikes in reaktor .

The filter I took as a starting point was a reaktor core moog ladder filter , with a built in saturation curve …inside he filter’s feedback loop, it’s necessary that the saturation curve is inside thefilter’s feedback loop ,post saturation won’t do the trick

INcreasing the input gain ( saw wave ) reduces/attenuates the resonance spikes ,making the saw wave more squarelike( because of the saturation curve ).

It was then just a a matter of increasing the resonance into self oscilation ,the resonant spikes appeared at the middle,zero crossing of the saw wave , typical of an overdriven filter ( increased input gain ) with self resonance

To be honoust I don’t know how the sallen key topology works , but the results I got from this workaround sounds almost exactly the same as other TRUe sallen key filters.

Currently in redux ( k typefilter ) the resonance self oscilation is limited and I think the saturation is not inside the filter’s feedback loop , but just post filter …

We can increase the input gain with 12 db ( sample properties ) to overdrive the filter ,but when setting resonance at max , this doesn’t give us the desired results n

The redux K filter sounds exactly the same as any other filter with a saturation stage inserted after the filter .

PLease correct me if I am wrong .

Kraken can you shed some light on this ?

fake ms 20 like filter in reaktor

reason example

What is this all about? So you are saying that the Redux filters do not sound as good as the Reaktor ones?

i suppose this is about “sine” self-resonance like ms10 or ms20 filter does
but k35 filter works little different (not better or worst, i have original analog korg filter but ive never used self resonance oscilation) and Redux / R 3.1 filter doesnt have inside but after filter drive so it doesnt do the trick.

Ah, thanks, Akiz.

gentleclockdivider, you could then connect a sine volume to the resonance value :stuck_out_tongue: MS20 is completely overrated, IMO… It’s fun to play with, but more a toy than a real synth… No velocity haha. Maybe the oscillators are quite nice. But common, every today’s rompler / virtual analog korg synth like Radias, Microkorg XL, M3, Kronos etc. have much better sounding filters and also oscillators. Why not taking these as a model for a Renoise synth… Would be much more interesting (at least for me :badteeth:). Analog voodoo? Sorry. My 2 cents.

But very cool you were able to rebuild these filters. Can you do this with radias filters? Can I send you example files, so you are able to rebuild them as an theoretical study in Reaktor?

Why not adding another screenshot with the Redux filter?

So you mean by simply enabling more possible resonance value in the redux filter, this beloved self oscillation would be possible?

  • 1 for that.

I dont agree here, ms20 makes amazing basses, Better than microkorg imho.

But microkorg and microkorg xl have completely different engines.

I see. I have MS20 as a plugin and i love it.
(Even I dont use it anymore, i moved to linux and use redux for almost everything :badteethslayer:)

And i have also monotron, its filter is great on some sound sources.

Maybe it is little overrated but it is absolutely classic.

@ jurek I don’t get you reall y ,you’re asking if t renoise filters are worse then reaktors ???

No they are not , reaktor core filters are as good as you make them ( in core that is ) I have no experience in filter design …

I just took a ladder style filter ( already built in core ), crancked up the input gain to overdrive the filter sa-

turation is inside filter’s loop ) and cranked up resonance beyond self oscilation .

Then yo give ome advice about simulating resoance witha sine wave ? :frowning:

Have you ever played an ms 20 ? , and I don’t mean the lagacy softsynths …

The filter is outstanding .

I would love to hear something from kraken/gore …he did built the filters …right ?

gentle: hey sorry, was a bad joke with the sine. Yeah if you think the renoise filters can be improved, then I vote +1 it, of course… Yes I played an original MS20 once, it sounds nice, but I for me, I prefer virtual analog / digital simulations.

hey no prob .

Btw. Ive just found that k35 is one of the two existing filters in ms-20.(MKI has been said in some forum…)

I know this filter from Caustic also. But i hate Caustic filters to be honest :slight_smile:

jurek: Great synth and it can route drive pre or post filter, nice.

Yeah, pre- and post-filter is an essential feature. Also that 2-parallel/serial-crossfading-filtertype is absolutely nice stuff! I wish Renoise… ;)Ok, maybe I am starting to annoying some people here by repeating this radias stuff over and over again :slight_smile:

Also the radias has these OSC features:

  • OSC types: Saw, Square, Tri, Sine, Formant, Noise, DWGS

  • OSC modulation types (modulation on OSC level):Waveform, Cross, Unison, VPM, PWM, Formant Character

  • OSC controls:Unison Detune,Unison Phase,Cross Modulation Depth,VPM Depth,VPM Harmonics,Formant Width,Formant Offset

  • OSC cross mod: Ringmod, Sync, Ringmod+Sync

-Analog Tune/Detune

  • Extra Unison section by Voice multiplication (2-6 voices, detune, spread)

The VPM section really can sound like DX7.


  • two filters, comb filter, LP12-LP24, BP, etc., smooth type crossfading, parallel or serial

And this drive/waveshape section, which sounds simply awesome:

Attachment 5756 not found.

  • Pre- / Post-Filter

  • Types: Decimator, Hard Clip, Oct Saw, Multi Tri (FM like), Multi Sin(FM like), Sub SAW/Squ/Tri/Sin, Pickup

  • Punch, for extra snappy attacks


Attachment 5757 not found.

Curve type for every section, just like Linplug/Rob Papen stuff

Awesome intelligent portamento section:

Attachment 5758 not found.

These curve types for the pitching in portamento is absolutely cool. The portamento also easily works in polyphonic mode.

  • Vocoder with formant memory, Audio-In

  • Awesome FX section, Post 3-band-EQ for every timbre

Most features are still missing in any today’s VST. I don’t know why. For example the portamento curves, which simply sound nice. Or this kind of drive section. So simple, so effective. Pre- and post sound completely different. And I also don’t understand why Korg isn’t make this as an VST, since they do not produce the real Radias (only Microkorg XL/XL+ with a simplified Radias synthesis) anymore… I would say it’s still their best synth out there (besides kronos monster). Maybe the image of that synth goes wrongfully too much in the trance direction.

Radias is a lot cheaper than Korg MS20… I really don’t know why someone should still prefer a MS20.

I would love to hear from the developer …kraken …