Note delay question


I have a question about the note delay commands. If i delay a note by the command 0Qxx, the note will be delayed by xx ticks per line. If i understand it right, with the default 12 ticks per line, 0Q0B will delay the note one full line. And in the note delay column the note will be delayed by xx of 256 slices per line, and there the value FF means a note delay of 1 full line. Until here i did understand it. But If i want delay a note by more than a line i have to move the note instead using a note command. Or is there a way delaying a note by more than a line (e.g. 4 lines) without moving the note to another line?

I’m asking because i’m doing a special song project at the moment where i have to play the same instrument in the same channel with the same melody into a 2nd note column, but delayed a few lines and with lower volume, to create a “special pseudo delay FX” to recreate an old melody with the same effect from an old amiga tracker.

I don’t think you can.(set tpl to 1 then use theQ command? but then you’ll be using 1 tpl…)But you can however make a phrase with that note set up already done and use that.

I was just asking, because that special tracker for the amiga is the well known TFMX Editor (also known as the 7 voice routine) by Chris Huelsbeck and this one does that shit. :wink:

Setting tpl to 1 also doesn’t work. Because the maximum amount of the delay is 1 line if i understand it right. Tried with amounts of more than the maximum ticks per line, but isn’t possible. Amounts more than a line will just result in a silent note.

You cannot delay a note for longer than a whole pattern line. (Not via typical pattern commands, at least.)

If you want to fake that oldschool delay/echo, then you could use a simple phrase as toblerpone suggested.

Here’s a very quick example:
6360 renoise-oldschool-delay-trick.xrns

With the phrase editor it would be possible. But there’s now another issue. The phrase stops and will be triggered from new by every new played regular note (no chord meant) and the delayed part will be also cutted and retriggered if the regular note will be cutted by a new note or a note off command. But i need it to continue the previous phrase until it’s end, while a new one is retriggered by a new note in the same note column of the same

track. But the phrase editor does fully retrigger from new, if the previous regular note is cutted by the next new note or a note off.

So the only way is playing the notes again into a 2nd note column and move the whole thing few lines down.

Let me exlain the features of the TMXF Editor. It’s a special tracker for the Amiga, especially developed in 1988 by Chris Huelsbeck and Peter Thierolf for the needs of Chris, to create things for his game music with features, which couldn’t be realized with all other trackers out there for the amiga. For example, the Turrican 1 & 2 music and ingame sounds were realized with it. It had a new feature called “7 voice routine”. With this feature it was possible for the first time on an amiga to play up to seven voices simultaneously in one single track. Octamed, Protracker, Oktalyzer etc. weren’t able to play more than one voice in the same track at the same time. With the TFMX Editor it was able to create awesome sound effects, all kind of sample based pseudo effects, multi voice sounds and phrases which weren’t be possible before TFMX with other software for the Amiga. And TFMX’s phrase editor can exactly do this thing i can’t do in the phrase editor of Renoise. :smiley:

TFMX uses up to 7 different “channels” (similar to the the MIDI Channels) to realize multiple voices or phrases in one single track, played by one single note. Most of the Amiga musicians in the demo scene say, TFMX Editor is/was the best tracker for the Amiga out there.

Some people even say, that this 7 voice routine later was copied by Roland for realizing their Supersaw oscillator.

All this talk of pioneering old 7-voice tracker routines aside… there’s clearly no way to make Renoise behave 100% authentically like TFMX. You could of course limit yourself to a maximum of 7 tracks, each with a single note column, no DSPs, limited pattern commands, in Amiga mode, etc, etc… but it will never be exactly the same.

The phrase trick mentioned above will at least help to create the basic illusion of echoes without very much work, but you’re correct in saying that the phrase notes will cut each other off and stop the effect if they’re all placed in the same note column. The obvious solution there is to split your notes across multiple note columns instead, allowing more room for each of them to play to completion, but perhaps this is more work than you’re willing to put in, or you simply prefer to keep the original melody restricted to a single column.

If note delay commands can’t do it, and phrases can’t do it, then the other obvious question is: Have you considered simply using a delay DSP device instead?

You could use a Multitap Delay, for example, to achieve several precisely programmed “taps” that occur some lines later, with or without feedback — probably without feedback if you want to sound more authentic — and by varying the number of taps used, you can create the illusion of more or less additional tracks/channels being used for echo notes.

6362 renoise-multitap-delay.xrns

Maybe this is more suitable?

I’ve done it now with the option of multiple columns. I just wanted to try it in the old amiga style. I’m a bit a nerd in such things and want try it like in the good old days :smiley:

Now i’ve another question. If i delay a note by using the delay column and the 0Qxx commands together in one line, will the two values added up, or will one command be overwritten by the other? (sorry for my annoying questions :P)

EDIT: tried it out and it seems it works. So it even would be possible to delay a note two lines.

Do you mind sharing a small demo XRNS of what you’re doing here? I’m somewhat curious to see/hear your technique.

I try to recreate a song from a well known Amiga game with Renoise by using all the original sounds and i try to find a way to recreate some techniques which were used in TFMX for some instruments of the original song without using any delay insert effect, because it should be made the old way, if it’s realizable with Renoise. It’s all heavy experimenting with Renoise and trial & error at the moment. But until now i somehow found a solution to realize it. :wink:

I’m in contact with the composer of the original and can’t yet say which song it is.

There’re also plans for making a video how it’s done in Renoise. If everything works as expected, then also the Renoise project file will be posted here in the download area if i get the permissions from the original author.

Here’s a picture where you can see how i delayed the notes, so that they’re matching the original note delays.

The “Lead 1” Track is panned to the right and the “Lead 1 Delayed” track is panned to the left.

Yeah, it looks a bit confusing, but with these settings the delayed notes and played instruments sound exactly like the originals.