Overcoming piano roll hate

Renoise product is currently being sold and commercial distributed! Your hobby project argument is invalid!

Careful, your ignorance and entitlement are showing.

What?
Being a hobby project has absolutely zero todo with something being commercially offered as a product.
A major portion of the western world tries in some way or form to make a bit of money from their hobby.
In this case well earned haha.

And it isn’t an argument either, get over yourself, and stop acting like nobody wants a Piano Roll.
Go check my posts, oh, thats right, biggest proponent of Piano Rolls on the forum.

If you sell your product and distribute it over an online shop its commercial! It seems, that u dont know the word definition.

Not following this drop-down argument…

Renoise was ONLY a hobby when they were coding NoiseTrekker 3 over 20 years ago & that was actually a donationware thing…When Renoise was being sold thereafter it BECAME COMMERCIAL & has been ever since! There is no ‘hobby’ about it…

And like I say it clearly states a piano roll is ‘on the list’ in 2003-

https://web.archive.org/web/20030207123105/http://renoise.com/wip.htm

But nothing came of it…And not everybody on here uses Renoise…

Hehe, nice find.

One day I decide try FL Studio. So, when I launch aplication, I find the bug. The piano roll! It’s stil not removed!

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Hobby means they do it in their spare time, Renoise is not a full time operation.
Oh wait, you think this dwindling community, built up out of people who mostly last paid anything to the developers years ago, is a full commercial enterprise with full time developers?
Hahahahaha oh my hahahaha, let me just hahahahaha wait hahahaha 2003 hahahaha they actually think the developers are making money hahahaha.

You should be happy it gets maintenance updates and keeps working, A LOTof DAWs have disappeared in the last twenty years.
The development here is near enough done for free.

Thank you for these enlightening contributions to my thread :nauseated_face:

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So you lost the point and now you’re complaining about tone? Get a grip dude.

Me? Dont understand. This thread was about how to overcome pianoroll aversion as a regular tracker user.

And NOT about your fights what Renoise should be or not. It actually was about Bitwig, which is really like for the routing and modulation, but not so much for the pianoroll. In the end, Bitwig can be way more precise than Renoise from a technical perspective, if you can use it the right way, I guess. But still usually my Renoise mixes are better, my tunes, too. Maybe I should just use it way more regularly, but I always feel aversion when I open Bitwig hehe Renoise in contrast always feels like coming home to me, like booting up AmigaOS 3.0 haha That sexy GUI, those colors, aaaah nice. No bugs at all. YAY Configuring any detail just like I want it… OMG

If I take a step backwards, and try to analyze what I really do not like about a common pianoroll (here Bitwig pianoroll), then I think there are these points:

  • It always turns into a mouse clicking orgy, at least for me
  • There is no fixed raster as in Renoise, you always have to zoom in/out scroll x/y etc.
  • No real keyboard shortcuts like Renoise. Can’t midi record a chord without playing, can’t play the notes under the cursor without playing
  • No proper side-by-side view
  • Grid lines do not really help me, eye is totally lost, there are no anchor points at all.

In the end these seem to be suble details each on its own, but in sum, it annoys me every time.

So at least I would improve these things then:

  • Kind of x/y subtle highlighting the row/col I am currently targeting, like crosshairs
  • By default zooming in only on x-axis, remembering y-zoom. Minimum unit is a measure.
  • Writing notes of pianoroll also on the right
  • Never ever not printing note names on the bars
  • Not wasting so much space on the borders, so only for touch enabled devices this wasting
  • introducing a second “playhead” only for editing, so I can record a chord on another place in the pianoroll than the actual play position. The editing playhead does not progress and can be moved around
  • Removing outlines, even double outlines
  • Adding shortcuts to move editing playhead around, playing notes under editing playhead, all that fine Renoise stuff. Shortcuts writing/deleting/moving/shrinking a note
  • multi view never layered, instead each on top. Vertical and x zoom synced, playheads, too. So does not require additional borders.
  • Remembering a lot of view settings when coming back, saved in the song
  • Quantization options back into inpsector panel
  • drum view can have full y-size
  • Highlighting measures on the grid
  • Increasing contrast of the background pianoroll, highlighting the octave line. Increasing the contrast overall (but still obviously separating background from foreground)
  • Option to remove the keyboard, just confuses me, writing only note names instead (but not wasting so much space, again). Never seen a piano standing on the side…
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