PDC in Renoise compared to Cubase 4

I don’t know if the problem relates only for my configuration, but the PDC works quite… strange.

My setup: Q6600@iP35, 4GB, m-Audio 24/96, XP SP2

Here it goes…

  1. I turned on the Battery 3 sampler, loaded my favourite kit and prepared 3 track drum mayhem score. I set up the buses and rerouted all channels.

  2. To the first track, I assigned SIR (free version 1.011), it’s the only plugin I use that needs host with PDC feature enabled.

And whutt? There’s a 300-400 ms gap on every track and channel. For the record, my sample buffer is 256.
When I unload SIR, everything backs to normal.

Any help? Ideas? :slight_smile:

I noticed that metronome is delayed too :slight_smile: Track scroll is ahead of the sound :slight_smile:

Everything is delayed, that is what PDC do. It delays all channels to the most delay-causing plugin.

Most of the GUI is not delayed however.
Thats also why there is a button to quickly enable/disable PDC.

A little update here, I checked PSP Master Comp demo (PDC needed too) and looks like it works fine. Looks like a problem with SIR - and that’s the only free convulsion Reverb I’m aware of.

I don’t remember such functionality from Cubase 4 (I work on two platforms now). After I turn the SIR on, there’s a silence gap between pressing the key from keyboard and hearing the sound.

Renoise 1.91 with PSP Master Comp (NO PDC)

Renoise 2.0b2 with PSP Master Comp (PDC On)

PSP’s with PDC works well, there’s no extended latency while I’m playing on keys then.

When I add SIR to the mix, everything is delayed (on 1.91 and 20b2). Even keyboard action, and i’m not sure this is how it should work. the keyboard action has the same value of delay, as the compensation requires to play tracks simultaneously. It’s hard to play then, and I don’t have this problem under C4 for sure.

Maybe there is a happy user of UAD-2 system, or Duende or something similar? :)

Then everything is as it should.

You can also goto to the menu - view - show pdc info…

There you will see what delay the different plugins will make, and how much each track is compensated (delayed).

To get everything in synch Renoise have to delay all tracks when SIR is demanding that huge latency.

You should get a better convolution reverb ;) or just setup a easy accessible shortcut for turning on/off PDC. It’s not so bad :)

Okay’ that’s workaround but… I have the songs that utilizes about 20 or 30+ tracks sometimes. Not so quite cool, huh?

I checked the PDC info in Renoise - SIR adds about 204 ms. Track delay is limited to only 100 ms (minus/plus).

SIR’s latency in general, and under Cubase is 8096 samples.

Maybe this comparison will shed some light on my problem:

C4 with Battery3 + SIR + Hand Played El Piano in tempo

Renoise 2.0b2 with Battery 3 + SIR + Hand Played El Piano in tempo

Hear the difference :) Maybe that’s because of Direct Asio Monitoring…?

What is your setup? You using any external gear?

Q6600@iP35,4GB DDr2, DELTA 24/96

External Gear… hmmm… Axiom 49 :slight_smile:

To be honest, that’s not the biggest problem of my life - I’m tracking with Rns and often remixing the tracks under Cubase 4, I can live without the PDC support but In my opinion It should work almost the same way under different hosts.

Anyway… I found that new incarnation of Renoise a major step forward, especially if someone uses a lot of multi-out instruments. I wonder how it performs with extrenal DSP plugins, where delay compensation really counts.

rezist.com : Just a tip, check out freeverb3 for another (zero-latency) free convolution-reverb: http://freeverb3.sourceforge.net/

But it shouldn’t affect notes placement on pattern :D

I just’ve imagined my song with everything “corrected” by half/tick delay :D

Thats something we’ve tried during the alpha tests (also back-dating recorded events by the soundcard latency) but it didn’t “felt” right. Maybe we should try this again, but this time only backdate by the amount of latency that is caused by PDC / the latency of the FX you are playing in.

Just to understand whats going on here: This is a record of the playback of the live recorded stuff, not a snapshot of the “live played” stream, right?

This is a beta, so we need your feedback. Why do you give up now and say that PDC is useless? Lets simply discuss this and try to find a solution…

Me? Give up? hey, I was one of the monkees who screamed for this feature in every Future Renoise Discussion :slight_smile: The second one was Multiple Out Instruments support and I’m more than happy that this is finaly approached :slight_smile:

I don’t know how many things depends on audio routing in Renoise and how the signal is mixed by it’s engine. As long as I have interest in using it and I can provide my limited experience, I’m in :slight_smile:

And about recording… Yep, that was live, recorded by another application with WDM Driver.

Okay, my suggestion…

Compensation affects all channels, right? And, in it’s ways it affects recording also. I’ll check tomorrow (today I’m almost dead) how it works with Line-In Recording (sample editor). But, what’s on my mind…

Maybe there is a possibility for creating some kind of virtual channel for “jamming” and then mapping it into current track. You can record and play always on the single track, right?

And what about playback? In Cubase 4 Plugin Information window, each plugin has it’s own latency, independent from card sample buffer. Maybe Cubase is compensating not the whole tracks or plugins but single INSERTS and SENDS (instances)? I dunno… Just my “Maybe it works that way” analysis…