OK, has that got a beats and bar ruler above it, and add snapped/unsnapped select/copy/paste with mouse that is one shit hot idea !!!
It of course need some kind of ruler/grid so it will be easy to see where in the pattern the audio is located. I was really just thinking about a visual thingy, but i wouldn’t mind if it was editable as well.
Tried to script a stupid piano roll
Personally I think a piano roll should be very compact and therefor something separate to the track editor. Anyway, fun and potentially useful stuff even when made this simple.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdRDhQheBcQ
(This tool concept can be quite handy for other stuff as well, like quickly painting blocks or using the pattern editor as a mouse driven step sequencer. Sometimes a mouse is faster than a keyboard.)
Joule, can you share here your tool XRNX for “stupid piano roll”?I would like to study the code. I think it has little stupid!
I think they have more than enough ideas and suggestions to pick from besides piano roll, i don’t think you should worry about Renoise not evolving.
Personally i don’t see any reason why i would want to use a piano roll, so i at least hope it won’t get in the way of the traditional way of tracking.
Instead of a piano roll i wish for a simple visual representation of the audio in a track while editing its pattern. It could take place of the track scopes/spectrum, simply showing the amplitude of the whole track with a grid line every beat or line depending on the size of the pattern.
will the preview be a dry-preview? best-guess-wet-preview (guessing freerunning and external input)? mandatory preview = freeze?
It is gratifying to see that some users understand this idea or issue.I think it is worth the effortprogramming and serious graphics editing to make easier the life of the composer who loves Renoise, and realizes that it can grow and improve.It is understandable that developers, after 14 years are tired of Renoise (or not).But in the history of humanity, it would be very sad that Renoise not continue to evolve.He is a tracker, yes, but the Pattern Editor could be much more advanced, dragging on the way to other utilities (per example the Automation Editor) to be a more complete DAW.
Just a little addition to this train of thought: it would have been understandable that they were tired of Renoise if the case was that they had to keep adding features that they don’t even like. It’s no secret that taktik isn’t very fond of Piano Rolls, so i imagine it wouldn’t be very fun spending way too much time on improving a “failed concept”. 
California rolls are an interesting and fun alternative to sushi. Surely, pianos are tasty and cute, too? let’s make them. yum!
Attachment 6763 not found.
What about this ^^
Visualize note lengths in blocks instead with note-off. Draggable block instead only line and resizable.
Auto sort notes by note number / pitch. Even on dragging up/down.
Write the ** interval number of halfsteps to the note** on the right. (Of course in hex for extra leetness and only max 1 octave to use one digit only)
Optionally define a base note for a pattern, so even the most left note shows an offset.
Shift-Dragging to left/right transposes the note and maybe sorts it.
IMO those two features (block + halfstep amount) would reflect everything good of a piano roll.
ffx, observe this:https://forum.renoise.com/t/solution-for-the-need-of-pianoroll/41744
It seems that many users somehow agree on how to display the length of the note. The “Note OFF” is a headache including at the code levelunder the hood!
Renoise does not allow change the color of “Note OFF”. I suppose. If all Notes are white, and the Note Off of another color, it would be very easy to identify.
In addition, it appears that the note OFF is used to mark,because there is nothing else.It would be great to have a “note” marking. Something like this ===
It also allows to do something that is absurd:
All these things complicate change towards something like what you mention.
You can fill an entire track with Note OFFsto infinity and beyond.As I have understood, is not a bug.But I do not know why it exists.
I often use this myself when looping segments or jumping between patterns.
We have this option in the preferences which can specify if voices are releasing during pattern navigation. I always disable this and control it myself, using a combination of OFFs and matrix mutes.
It means that I can control exactly when & where notes are released 
- Select a “Note OFF”
- Copy (Ctrl+C)
- Paste belowrepeatedly jumping the line in the same track (Ctrl + V)
Mm, another thing: you know continuous paste, right? (Ctrl+P)
I often use this myself when looping segments or jumping between patterns.
We have this option in the preferences which can specify if voices are releasing during pattern navigation. I always disable this and control it myself, using a combination of OFFs and matrix mutes.
It means that I can control exactly when & where notes are released
This is beyond my comprehension 
Have you an example XRNS that show?
Mm, another thing: you know continuous paste, right? (Ctrl+P)
Of course! With Ctrl+V, the operation involves multiple times, that was the intention that brings him more absurd…If note-OFF has another useful function, I have never seen an example.
I’ve sometimes used to mark a line within a track, but I wish there was a symbol ( === or similar) marking and not mix with the note-OFF. I use note-OFF because there is nothing else.
Have you an example XRNS that show?
Hm, I would have to shoot a video, because it’s what you _do_with the song.But let me try and explain.
imagine a song which is intended to be played live? Sometimes you want to loop/extend patterns a little bit, depending on the situation.
Now, the way Renoise works, looping a pattern means that voices that are triggered near the end of a pattern continue to play as the playback loops.
So you can have a sound playing at the top, even if there was no such sound the first time playback reaches this pattern.
But wait - perhaps I_don’t_ want the sound to play - maybe I want the pattern to sound like it did the first time?
The only real way to do this is to insert an OFF at the top - something which otherwise doesn’t make sense if you are just playing the song in a forward-going fashion.
Btw: another cool “pattern looping” trick is to trigger notes with a Gxx command - this lets you trigger a note just once during looped playback.
- The absurd: You can fill an entire track with Note OFFsto infinity and beyond.As I have understood, is not a bug.But I do not know why it exists.
This is definately not absurd, how else would you be able to write random offs? If you want some randomness to the lenght of a key you can easily do that with random offs using the y command, but if you were restricted to one off after a note it wouldn’t have worked.
0ff y5
0ff y7
0ff ya
0ff
Well, you could still be able to enter a note-off,only visually, it should be shown as a block. If start is on previous pattern and a note-on in previous pattern, simply draw a block from top, but without a note inside. If no note-on in previous pattern, draw an old-fashioned “off” 
This is normal?I ask only from curiosity.
===========
C-4 50
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF Y5
OFF Y7
OFF
OFF Y5
OFF
===========
This does not work?:
===========
C-4 50
…
…
…
…
… Y5
… Y7
…
… Y5
OFF
===========
Well, you could still be able to enter a note-off,only visually, it should be shown as a block. If start is on previous pattern and a note-on in previous pattern, simply draw a block from top, but without a note inside. If no note-on in previous pattern, draw an old-fashioned “off”
I think there will be graphical problems when treating OFF notes by the behavior they have, which is not strictly related to a current note.
By the way, look …https://forum.renoise.com/t/15-interesting-suggestions-for-future-versions-of-renoise-3-1-f/44475(Look at the last screenshot of the comment)… outdated idea :
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:5977]
The Note-OFF need not disappear. But what about comments of Danoise and TheBellows?How to solve this graphically?
No, I simply had the best idea in the world, didn’t you see? ^^
Intervals + blocks? Isn’t that what you’re after in a piano-lol? Doesn’t matter if your eye count spaces between blocks or simply reads numbers, right? maybe numbers are even faster, if you get used to it… So saving that ugly waste of space in a classical piano-lol.
No, I simply had the best idea in the world, didn’t you see? ^^
Intervals + blocks? Isn’t that what you’re after in a piano-lol? Doesn’t matter if your eye count spaces between blocks or simply reads numbers, right? maybe numbers are even faster, if you get used to it… So saving that ugly waste of space in a classical piano-lol.
^^ ^^ 
To clarify, most screenshots are sketches of an idea invites you to go further(at least in my case). Sometimes graphic is explained things that hundreds of words.I guess every user will have his positive idea on a piano roll or something similar to it, or disparaging opinion.
For me, a tool capable of displaying ordered all notes would be a breakthrough…, even extremely basic (move notes, duration and little more),the more integrated better. So I made this topic.
All this blocks and mark the notes is related, but most problems are graphics, depending on the current operation of Renoise.For example, having a floating window with 3 or 4 octaves of notes showing the neat would be great.And it would be great to be called piano-lol
Add blocks of colors, wipe the note-OFF, etc. things seem isolated, not something substantive.Today I have proposed an absurd thing. To paint the note-OFF of a different color.Any graphic help is gold, like your best idea.
Today I have proposed an absurd thing.
Keep posting absurd things Raul. One, it can make interesting food for thought, and two, one never knows when “the absurd” might become “the reality”.
Cheers.
Keep posting absurd things Raul. One, it can make interesting food for thought, and two, one never knows when “the absurd” might become “the reality”.
Cheers.
This is normal?I ask only from curiosity.
===========
C-4 50
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF
OFF Y5
OFF Y7
OFF
OFF Y5
OFF
===========
This does not work?:
===========
C-4 50
…
…
…
…
… Y5
… Y7
…
… Y5
OFF
===========
Not shure if i understand your question, but no, your first example doesn’t make much sense because only the first ‘off’ would be read, rest of the lines it’s just trying to turn off something that is already off. If all the offs had a y command there would be a small chance it wouldn’t turn off at all.
Second example looks like it just wants to maYbe do nothing.
Not shure if i understand your question, but no, your first example doesn’t make much sense because only the first ‘off’ would be read, rest of the lines it’s just trying to turn off something that is already off. If all the offs had a y command there would be a small chance it wouldn’t turn off at all.
Second example looks like it just wants to maYbe do nothing.
Thanks TheBellows!
And this third case? This work?You can put a real example of using the parameter “Yx” with Note-OFF?
===========
C-4 50
…
…
…
…
OFF Y5
OFF Y7
…
OFF Y5
OFF
===========