Playing Chords

Playing around on the (ordinary computer-)keyboard in this new Beta version doesn’t work as smooth as I want it, because some chords doesn’t work. For instance when I play E-T-Y (E-G-A) at the same time nothing happens. But on the other hand Y-I-O (A-C-D) does work, and it’s the same chord but in another key. Are all this a bug or are things like this for a reason? When I edit them manually in the pattern editor and Play it all works, but I’d like to play around in non-edit mode as well.

Other chords that doesn’t work;
E-T-U (E-G-B )
W-R-Y (D-F-A)
Q-E-T (C-E-G)

A-4, C-5, E-5 doesn’t work, but one octave higher does work (A-5, C-6, E-6)

Well, I could possible find a lot others but you get the point now =)

The guy is right, it doesn’t work anymore it did in the previous Alpha’s and 1.2x.

You should normally be able to press most three or four-key combinations on keyboard.

This is definately a ‘bug’, probably caused by a fix for something else.

I have never been able to play most four-note chords with any of my keyboard, and even many three note chords have always cuased trouble. It is keyboard specific, hardware limited.

How about programmable chord templates in Renoise for people not owning a midi keyb? Working in relative values it could give huge amount of chords with just a couple of templates, especially if you can assign some exceptions to chords, like when you are in chord mode and press shift and a key it plays a chord with risen fifth (don’t know how to say it in english) or so, etc…

I can play mostly only 2 note chords… But i don’t think this is Renoises fault…
I have never been able to play chords from my computer keybord…
Thats why i will get myself a simple MIDI keyboard soon…

Yeah I noticed the fault on another computer, but now I’m at home testing the Beta and encounter the same problem as Bantai (I can press E-T-Y, but not R-Y-U for example.) Strange… But I think I work best with an ordinary computer keyboard than a real claviatur. Because I’m a tracker at heart and just used to it… And it would be nice if I could press all keys at the same time.

I could hit most three key chords and in a lot of cases also 4 key chords so this is not keyboard specific.

I also have various country-specific keyboard layouts installed (for test purposes) and they all behave the same (using French, Dutch, Russian, English).

There was a fix to make the French Swiss keyboard, not mix up the Y and the Z key (for undo and redo actions in several regions of Renoise) but this probably means that this fix sacrafices the chord-option.

In that case, adding some kind of chord-table mode is not a bad idea.
I like the chord mode in the Realguitar VSTI. (You only need a keycombo of two keys to get a Minor or a seven and the default one key stroke is a major)

You can’t get out of the matrix… :(

do maybe usb keyboards behave different?

if not then i’m sure this thing can… unfortunately it’s $339… but man, i want such a thing so badly, it makes the old keyboard + mouse combi look like a stoneage approach

What do u think…

what is the better buy, to use in renoise…

the cheaper M-Audio Keystation 49E


little more expencive M-Audio Radium49

The Radium. It’s not that big of a difference in price and it can be useful sometimes with the sliders/knobs. Although I use the knobs of my keyboard very seldom they have proven to be very useful at times.

Well, there is a thing called keyboardbuffer and typematic delay which also cause their influences on one and another.

There may be more user-customisable settings that can cause keyboards behave like they don’t seem to support n-rollover readouts.
But i assume that the test-application does a sort of true hardware call upon the BIOS level or through the BIOS level kerneldriver of windows.

Having Sticky keys enables also cause a lot of troubles.

I wonder how this would be for Mac users…

To me it seemed like the second article also blamed the hardware for the problems… but maybe there are software problems too :unsure: I did some research on keyboards and to summarize, this is what I came up with:

The term for a keyboard which can handle any combinations between any keys is “n-key rollover” or “full n-key rollover”.

Keyboards like this are hard to find because most keyboards don’t support it and most vendors don’t include this in the specs. I only found these models…

KEYBOARDS FOR BRAILLE (which support 6-key rollover, but not necessarily all key combos)
German price comparing site (some models here are said to have n-key rollover)

Or, the last option, go find an old clicketyclicky IBM model M keyboard and use a PS2 adapter to plug it in (the keyboards can even be bought here).

So, if someone know they have a full-key rollover keyboard, it would be interesting to see how it works with Renoise.

I used to have the same problem playing chords in FT2 and MT2. I can confirm that different keyboards allow different combinations. Exactly that happened to me when I changed my keyboard (only the keyboard, not the PC).
I used to ‘simulate’ arpreggios to get around it sometimes. So if a combination of T-U-P wouldn’t work usually, I’d play the the three keys quickly after each other. This works for strings and pads. Shorter instruments would still have this problem.
I’m not sure if it is a good idea, if Renoise could do this ‘arpreggio simulation’ on its own. I’m not seriously going to suggest this. But maybe (if you often play pads), it can help you as a workaround.

Johan, thanks! I´m going to buy a full-n-key-rollover keyboard.

The only Full-n-keyboards I could find was from Fujitsu Siemens, they donät seam to be manufacturing some of those anymore, but they can be found at big PC stores.

The Fujitsu Siemens KBPC P2 professional keyboard design is the result of customer feedback. The removable palm rest reduces fatigue. “Full-N-Key-Rollover” for extremely accurate keying. The power on/off switch is always close at hand. Three additional keys provide quick and easy access to Windows functions. The perfect choice for professional PC applications. Download data sheet.

FUJITSU-SI Tangentbord professional Full-N-Key-Rollover Power on switch (PS/2, 2m) with palm rest
Art Nr S26381-K340-V155

FUJITSU-SI keyboard KB PC USB. Proffessionellt tangentbord, USB hub med 3 portar, Full-N-Key-Roll
Art Nr S26381-K280-V255


I found some swedish places selling some FujitsuSiemens Full -n keyboards but they are quite expensive, though…

Microsoft Natural Keyboard (First Edition from 1996, I guess) - no problems pressing many keys together…

And I use this one

I have a hard time entering key combinations in 1.5 that are no problem in 1.28.

i.e. I use left control + r alt to go an octave down and left control + right control to go an octave up

it only works about half the time, but it’s no problem when I do it in 1.28.

i wonder why this is?

The mid 90s was sad time for trackers and gamers. Companies started making keyboards cost-effectively thus introducing the limit of simultaneously pressed keys. This ofcourse interferes with composing on the keyboard and fatally damages the gameplay of multiplayer games. The kind of games where you don’t play over a network but instead cram four guys in front of the same keyboard to kick each other’s ass. (Believe me, a LOT of Finnish games were like that back then.) Fortunately for me, my first PC setup came with a BTC keyboard which doesn’t choke even if you press all the keys at the same time. I still use that keyboard with my other computer (w/ a DIN->PS2 adapter ofcourse) because it’s just perfect for FT2. Strangely, I never even considered using the BTC with the main computer, the Renoise box, because using a MIDI keyboard feels much more natural. Something it never did with FT2.

yeah, i remember those games… :) i even playd em on AMIGA :)

Yup, I remember a Finnish games where you could be 4 players, shooting each other down with planes, seen from above. What was the name of that game anyway?

So what is Alpha N Key Rollover? Is that basically a polite way of saying it’s restricted by the onboard circuitry?