im not too sure on polyrythms maybe sum1 cud help me.say if im using 10/4 for drums and want to have a synth line over it in say 3/4 how do i go about this.btw the pattern length wud be 240 and the lpb wud b 24.so i know a bar of 3/4 wud b 72 but wen the bar 0f 10/4 runs out what happens to the remainder of the 3/4 synth line b4 the next pattern??

I got a little lost amongst the creative respellings in your post, but polyrhythm typically has less to do with layering rhythms of differing lengths than it does with layering rhythms that divide up the same bar differently.

For example: a classic polyrhythm is the bossa nova rhythm:

x-x--x-- | x-x--x--  
x-x-x-x- | x-x-x-x-  
x--x--x- | --x--x--  

…so that’s just a 4/4 bar but having a few different instruments dividing the bar up differently creates a polyrhythm.

ok that helps a little.bt wat i shud of asked for help with is polymeters.not polyrythms,i gt them confused 4 the same thing.10/4 and 3/4 how wud i go about this???thx

You should use the least common multiple of the number of lines that each meter would occupy for a single bar, so that you can have an integral number bars in each meter per pattern. In your case:

34 = 12 (a bar will be 12 lines)
4 = 40 (a bar will be 40 lines)

The least common multiple is 120, which means a single pattern will contain 10 bars in 3/4 and 3 bars in 10/4. You can, of course, double or triple that if this would be more convenient for you.

3/4 + 4/4 polyrhythm needs to be played in 12/16 time.
2/4 + 3/4 polyrhythm needs to be played in 6/16 time.
7/8 + 3/4 polyrhythm needs to be played in 21/32 time.
See the pattern?

another quick hint:

3/4 vs 4/4:





Now I’m getting confused… then what the heck is 4/7 ?

Template for Pulse Meter Variations
Programming in Unconventional Time Signatures

I get them confused too, plus polymeter and polyrhythm can be constructed both linear and vertical, though vertical is less common… just to add to the confusion :P

“10/4 and 3/4 how wud i go about this???thx”

If your doing linear polymeter, that would be 13/4… (my understanding of 13/4 10/4 3/4 from your description is that 4 is time not bars)

My approach to vertical polymeter and I don’t experiment much with it (so if there’s more approaches to this, do tell), is… EDIT: how many bars does 10/4 and 3/4 need in order to sync to the first beat of the first bar of 10/4 and 3/4.

could someone dispute this if I’m wrong ?

subset i think i can slightly understand where ur coming from.let me just try explain again.in my setup.its 24 lines to a beat.so if im working in 10/4 i set the pattern length to 240. 10 x 24= 240.if im working in 3/4 it would be 72. 3x 24= 72…SO am i right in saying that i have to wait till the patterns match up and there is no remainder??like wait untill 72 divides into 10/4.OK i think i got it.720 divedes by 72 by 10.therefore i need 10 patterns of 10/4 coinciding with 3/4 to cum out even.

4/7 is not a time signature… what does that flickr photo have to do with this thread? 4/7 is the date the photo was taken :P (July 4th)

You’re indeed wrong… to do 10/4 vs 3/4, you have to work in 30/16 … you need to multiply the time signatures, not add them ;)

thnx bytesmasher,u got it on the head.i tried it out and i think it sounds very strange,the groove is so bizarre.thnx for the help man…

actually depending on how i structure the phrases within the 3/4 beat and what kits i use.it really has a MESSHUGGAH vibe to it.if only renoise had full midi support,u cud do some very very interesting things with this…

Toybox, you got it right with 720 lines per pattern - 10 bars in 3/4 @ 24 LPB which will naturally match up 3 bars in 10/4 @ 24 LPB. Thus you get even on the bars per pattern in both meters.

Still, this is only for this single case. If you need to stack up the 3/4 phrase against 4 bars of the 10/4 phrase then you’ll have to multiply the pattern length by 4 and work with patterns of 2880 lines. As you can see, this can quickly become rather mind boggling, but of the results are worth it, keep on keeping on. :)

oh man i was just experimenting but i think i stumbled on something really cool.it really sounds alien when i tweek it to my liking…i have it figured out now,its actually easy.just in the past like 10 mins ive been amazed at the overall feel and groove this brings.it kinda sounds like a mix of snares and autechre.dont think elephant gear bcuz it sounds nothing like that…

o yeah i know that,but its not per pattern the way im working.i have 3 patterns of 10/4 and in that phrase as a whole a 3/4 beat is also running.this is cool bcuz i always work in 10/4…so i was thinkin polymetric 10/4 and 4/4 wud suit me down to the ground since four patterns of 10/4 would allow me to keep a groove thats not too alienating while still mainting a 4/4 groove on top,keeping it polymetric.

ok so evry 3 patterns of 10/4,3/4 runs into itself.i am using phrasing so these two signatures will not contain a constant groove.so say if i just stop the 3/4 beat at 192 on every second pattern.that leaves me with two beats left.if i phrased say 10/4 in 2/4 3/4 2/4 1/4 2/4 every pattern the missing two beats on the 3/4 side would be nicely filled in by the 10/4 sides phrasing.allowing me to work in patterns of two for the main signature wich is 10/4.what are the implications of this though,is it still a polymetric 10/4 and 3/4 since the 3/4 never gets to cum around as a whole??

Wow, yeah, thanks for clarifying that… I’m going bonkers.

subset,i would just divide that number by 240 and that will give me the number of 10/4 patterns needed.

some links…

Includes Matrices…

Seems to be a popular link from what I saw in the archived Meshugahh forums…

Frank Zappa interview…

…just wanted to redeem myself because I added some confusion before in this thread, mixing up polymeter and polyrhythm. There are some nice YT videos as well, but its simple enough to find.

Good times :)