Pre/post drive option for new instrument filters

[gentleclockdivider]

The drive in the instruments tab is affecting the shape of the volume envelope ., so it’s more acting like an overdriven vca.

When aplying a fast exponential decaying envelope to a sample , the saturation boosts all the levels of the amp.env.

Shouldn’t the amplitude env.be the last stage , to shape the ( saturated) output ?

This really affects the decay stage/snappines of fast envelopes , putting the drive at the end of the signal chain without the option to change (pre amplitude ) is major design flaw .

This makes me suspect that renoise/redux amp.envelopes are processsed before the actual instrument effects/drive ?

Abletons sampler , its amplitude envelope shape is not affected by the drive ( pre or post filter ) and I can give numerous examples…scroll down for screenshots GALORE!

Correct me if I am wrong , just thinking out loud here

so renoise/redux is (effects section not included )

Sample---->VOLUME ENV.----->instr.filter/effect----->drive---->out

instead of

Sample---->instr.filter/effect-----> drive ------->VOLUME ENV.–>out

Which makes me also a bit supsicious whether the drive is actually affecting the filter’s internal bcircuit.

We don’t get any overtones when resonance is high and the drive is disabled ( analog modeled filters do ), increasing the sample’s input volume does not overload the filter .

Enabling the drive creates overtones , yes , but so does a post sat.effect , and the fact that the drive shapes the output of the overal volume envelope makes me think that it’s just a sat.effect at the end of the instrument signal chain , more of a vca overdrive .

Kraken ,can you please shed some light on this manner , I am just really curious

Can’t there be an option to make the drive /filter pre- volume envelope ?

Or better ,make the amplitude env. the last module in the voice routing .

This is an essential feature.

If renoise architecture does not allow this kind of reconfiguration , the amp.env.shape will always be affected by all new (if any) forthcoming filter/fx.

I don’t see any advantages with the current configuration .

Can it be changed ?

Posted below is simple saturated filter , fast volume envelope which is not affected by the drive, but shaping the overal output of the sat.signal ( simple reaktor ens. ).

This is currently not possible in redux /future renoise when drive is enabled

[TheBellows]

The best option imo would be to make a custom order or if there was an optional identical prefilter.

[gentleclockdivider]

Hello developers …It would be nice to have some feedback on this one .

[patmaddox (pat)]

This would be interesting. I’ve still not used redux. But I like the idea of having separate drive stages before and after filter & amp envelopes.

With a drive stage before amp/filter, you can get the tone and then shape it. With a drive stage after, the envelopes do less to affect shape, and more to affect tone. Both are neat.

In the mean time, you can use a compressor or transient shaper to get the shape you want.

But I like this feature request

[taktik]

Tried both (and more), and post drive in the filter simply sounded best - so we used this by default. No WTF, no design mistake, simply a choice. Of course would be neat to make it an option.

Additionally to that (post filter saturation), the drive parameter also affects the filter’sinternal resonance path. For example, full drive, full resonance will self-oscillate inmost of the new filters.

But if you don’t want the filter’s drive to be applied before the volume envelope gets applies, the filter, not only the drive must be processed before the volume modulation.

Well, or build your own filters in Reaktor if you really need to have control over !everything! ?

[ffx]

Taktik, but you simple cannot compare pre- and post-FILTER drive. There are used for completely different applications.
Pre-filter usually never sounds directly distorted, but is some kind of smooth satuturation for fattening the sound. E.g. For good bass sound. Imo pre-filter is totally essential. That’s why it’s available in most pro (hardware) synths. In the very last time finally also vst developers starting to understand this. From my experience the most interesting sounds require pre-filter-distortion. Why not adding a switch to the analog filter device on the position where now the over sampling label is? Or since oversampling doesn’t seem to be required for pre-filter, it could be an option in the same select box.

And of course to the sample modulation. If you could drag up overdrive before the filter (filter type, cutoff and Rez would require to be visually one block) in this box where you select the current parameter. Or dragging down the volume after filter or drive.

[gentleclockdivider]

Tried both (and more), and post drive in the filter simply sounded best - so we used this by default. No WTF, no design mistake, simply a choice. Of course would be neat to make it an option.

Additionally to that (post filter saturation), the drive parameter also affects the filter’sinternal resonance path. For example, full drive, full resonance will self-oscillate inmost of the new filters.

But if you don’t want the filter’s drive to be applied before the volume envelope gets applies, the filter, not only the drive must be processed before the volume modulation.

Well, or build your own filters in Reaktor if you really need to have control over !everything! ?

Nice One , with the reaktor Joke …

The big issue my dear friend taktik …is that the drive is affecting the AMPLITUDE ENVELOPE .

Which means the amp stage is the first step in the signal chain .

Filter or no filter ,choose a ringmod …set to dry , the env.shape is altered by the drive …I made enough screenshots .

Am I correct in stating that the amplitude envelope is the first in the signal chain ?

Is it possible to alter the configuration ?

Thanks in advance

[gentleclockdivider]

Simple question ,

Am I correct in stating that the amplitude envelope are the first in the signal chain ?

[gentleclockdivider]

please

[gentleclockdivider]

any chance this will happen , I hate the drive messing up my amp.curves .

STill liking the characther of drive , so amp.envelope -->last stage and we’re all happy .

Including fruity dance …

[gentleclockdivider]

ON e more reason why the rouitng should be configurable .

When a filter with high resonance is dialed in , and a verry fast decaying amp.envelope .

The filter keeps ringing ( oscillating ) because the amp .env .isn’t at the end of the chain .

There’s a reason why 99.99 % of hard/soft ware developers use the amp at the end of the stage .

Sonic charge microtonic is one of the few exceptions on the rule , but that is primarly a drumcomputer ,so it’s understandable

and renoise is so much more than just that .

Hell even elektron’s analog rhytm has it’s .overdrive and filte rbefore the actual amp.stage , because …you know why

[gentleclockdivider]

So are we gonna ignore this thread ?

Amp envelope …–>Last stage