Question About Sample rates

Hello to all, i am new in this forum.

i was using Renoise 1.9.1, and now i downloaded the 2.0 version.

i have noticed that the “Sample rate” in “Preferences” don´t have now the option to set to 192khz. it only have the maximum to 96khz.

why it have been removed in the 2.0 version?


nobody know…? :(

I don’t think it has been removed. are you sure that Renoise 1.91 has this option? Renoise should simply show all the available sample rates available in the soundcard drivers. Maybe you are using ASIO drivers in 1.91 and DirectSound drivers in 2.0?

no, i use the demo version of Renoise, i can not use ASIO drivers.

i just installed the 1.9.1 version again and here is the option: (and the sound is much better than 96khz)…n191version.jpg

do you really hear the difference between 96 and 192? in what way?

i also have possibility for 192… but I can hardly even tell the difference between 44khz and 88khz…


my sound card supports DVD-Audio 24 bits/192khz (in 2 channel).


try to hear a song with many instruments playing at the same time, you will hear MORE CLEAR and SEPARATED the instruments sound of each other.

if you have low quality speakers you will not notice it in the same way of course…but i notice it A LOT with only a headphone of 20€ price (Technics RP-F290).

Denim, you can use the 192khz in the 2.0 version??

if you have a home teather system 5.1, you can hear a movie in dolby digital 5.1 (it are in 24bits/96khz), and after it, put a music CD (it are 16 bits/44.1khz) of your favorite and “great sound” music CD…

you will hear it like a shit now!!! :lol:

wow. interesting, but kind of confusing. funny about the playstation player. haha. i have one at home, have to check that out :)

well, i think i’ll just stick to my plan: producing in 44khz (recording in 88), but rendering, mixing and mastering in 88khz 32-bit float, and then convert back to 44/16.

i’ve heard conversion from 88/32 to 44/16 will give me least amount of dithering errors/artifacts, since the math is way more easy than with 96 vs 44.

well, the mixing of the sounds in Renoise when you play a song sound MUCH better using a higher frequency than a low.

if you hear a song in 96khz, and later, set to 48khz, you will hear the sound like it is “inside a box”…(the same happen for 192khz->96khz)

actually, though of course the value is enough for audible sound reconstruction, the origin of 44100 value is less scientific and more industry related. read more here

josecm, you claim that higher bitrate will increase dynamic range, but in fact, it won’t. You’re confusing bitrate with bit depth… and as it turns out, Renoise’s bit depth is significantly higher than the 24bit integer bit depth that DVD uses. Renoise uses a 32bit float depth for its internal mixing. Floats are a datatype that allow for a larger range of values than is possible with integers of the same physical size. A 24bit integer can have a volume range of -8388607 to 8388607, while a 32b integer can contain volume values from −2147483648 to 2147483648 … a 32b float, however, can contain values ranging from 340000000000000000000000000000000000000 to -340000000000000000000000000000000000000 … which is more dynamic range than you’ll ever need. It’s surely more than DVD’s puny ~4 billion value range. Bit depth is very important for allowing lots of space betwen different volumes.

So what is super-high bitrate good for? Not much really, other than avoiding aliasing errors when applying certain effects. The human ear can’t hear above 22khz … so having a 192khz recording doesn’t do much other than waste valueable system resources.

Your comment about DVD sounding better, by the way, has more to do with the fact that music recordings are suffering from the “loudness wars” than anything. When people master music these days, they use compressors to take away all the dynamic range in the recording. DVDs are mastered to keep that dynamic range, however, as it gives more of a theatrical sound, and allows for some sonic suspense. Consumers don’t seem to like that effect in music recordings though… so the music industry has been pushing more and more towards a super-loud format that doesn’t give the ears a chance to rest.

There was also a recent blind study done where people were asked to listen to two recordings, one which was full studio quality, and one which was 44khz, 16bit, and wasn’t even dithered. It turns out, the lower quality version won out as the better sounding one… people’s ears seemed to like the overtones produced by the digital distortion of the 44khz recording.

surely must been people thant don´t have a good ear… :wacko:

a 24 bits/96khz sounds awesome with regards to 16 bits/44.1khz…

Denim, you can use the 192khz in the 2.0 version?

You just ignored my entire bloody post, didn’t you? epic facepalm

i think so, yes. haven’t tried it for a couple of years - but i’m pretty sure it’s in the list of available sample rates. can check it out tonight - or maybe anybody else with 192 and renoise 2+ can confirm this

there could also be another reason for the problem you experience (bad quality at 44khz compared to 192khz): your soundcard probably works internally at 192Khz (or, more likely, at 96khz). If so, when using the soundcard at 44khz, the DAC performs a downsampling to 44khz. converting from 192khz to 96khz (or not converting at all, see above parenthesis) can be quite transparent, but converting from 192 (96) to 44 can produce audible artifacts.

i readed all your post, i come from Spain but i think that i understood all that you want to say.

the people get used to ear this kind of sound (CDs).

Perhaps Google Translate can help :P

josecm, que sostienen que aumentará la tasa de bits más alta gama dinámica, pero en realidad, no. Estás confundiendo el bitrate con profundidad de bits … y como resulta, Renoise la profundidad de bits es significativamente superior a la profundidad de bits de 24 bits entero de DVD que utiliza. Renoise utiliza un flotador de 32 bits de profundidad de su interior la mezcla. Flotadores son un dato que permite un mayor rango de valores que es posible con enteros del mismo tamaño físico. Un número entero de 24 bits puede tener un rango de volumen de -8388607 a 8388607, mientras que un 32 ter volumen entero puede contener valores -2147483648 a 2147483648 … 32 ter un flotador, no obstante, puede contener valores que van desde 340000000000000000000000000000000000000 a -340000000000000000000000000000000000000 … que es más rango dinámico que usted necesitará siempre. Es seguramente más de DVD’s insignificante ~ 4 mil millones de rango de valores. Profundidad de bits es muy importante para permitir que un montón de espacio entre los diferentes volúmenes.

Entonces, ¿qué es super bueno para alta tasa de bits? No mucho realmente, excepto evitar errores de aliasing al aplicar algunos efectos. El oído humano no puede oír por encima de 22KHz … así que tener un registro de 192 kHz no hace mucho que no sean residuos valiosos recursos del sistema.

Su comentario acerca de DVD de sonido mejor, por cierto, tiene más que ver con el hecho de que las grabaciones musicales están sufriendo a causa de la “sonoridad guerras” que nada. Cuando la gente maestro de música en estos días, utilizan compresores para quitarle a todos el rango dinámico en la grabación. Los DVDs se domina a mantener el rango dinámico que, sin embargo, ya que ofrece más de una obra de teatro de sonido, y permite cierta sonoro suspenso. Los consumidores no parecen como el efecto de la música … a pesar de las grabaciones por lo que la industria de la música ha sido empujar más y más hacia un formato de súper-alta que no da las orejas una oportunidad de descansar.

Hubo también un reciente estudio realizado ciego donde las personas se les pidió que escuchar dos grabaciones, que se completa un estudio de calidad, y que se 44kHz, 16 bits, y ni siquiera fue dithered. Resulta que, la versión de menor calidad ganó como mejor suena un … los oídos de la gente parecía como los matices digitales producidos por la distorsión de la grabación de 44kHz.

I don’t know about you guys, but I can hear at least up to 96KHz, and I even notice some of the aliasing around 100KHz or so.

It’s really annoying hearing radio stations all the time, though. Especially since my hearing only goes up to amateur.

yes, i understand. The bit deph is the vertical resolution of the sound, and the bit rate is the horizontal resolution.

if you have more bit rate you can record higher frequencies, and if you have more bit deph you can record a more precise value for an input sound that are be recording (the vertical value of the wave).