Sorry man, but what you try to tell here is utterly and complete nonsense. Nothing more to say.
You didn’ t get that I was talking about perfecting the automation envelope editor, and the impossibility of this, and how to handle it. But I can’t do anything about this.
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=renoise,bitwig
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=renoise,bitwig,ableton
What is this all about and why there is John Frusciante in the Renoise’s related search terms?
If you look at Renoise alone, they actually managed a slight and very constant loss of interest:https://www.google.com/trends/explore?q=renoise
Automation curves are really important, esp. for pitch and volume.
Raul, please don’t feel misplaced. It (forget about envelopes) is an overstrechted argument to make it feel better that Renoise died. You probably simply won’t get an update for the env editor, not the one you like. Just that.
I mean that I feel displaced, because of the style of music that I use the most.In these forums neither person composes orchestral music (or almost any).Just electronic, experimental music and stuff like that.
However apart, sometimes I do not understand your arguments.It’s as if you’ll be talking about something else.I compose orchestral and also electronic music (and new age). I can compare both very widely and I assure you that automating is important, especially in the first style of music.I may not know how to explain myself better for you to understand.Forget the musical styles and watch the programming and what can be improved in a particular program (Renoise).Everything else is confusing and spinning like crazy.
Raul, Ok, my fault. I didn’t exactly explain what I mean. I meant that it is overrated how the envelope editor looks, the look of it may make a customer think it’s better. That means that it costs more development time, which for me as customer means I maybe should question if it has to look good, if it has to handle all cases. Dunno, I simply thought that - consider creating a new tracker - there could be consense that it only has to sound good, and maybe it could even be edited with numbers only, and plugins creating their (sample perfect) curves from this, etc. I’m simply thinking about how a open source tracker could look like, I should have told this. I’m not the one to tell what you should be able to do with music software. It’s my personal approach, and it may differ.
Raul, Ok, my fault. I didn’t exactly explain what I mean. I meant that it is overrated how the envelope editor looks, the look of it may make a customer think it’s better. That means that it costs more development time, which for me as customer means I maybe should question if it has to look good, if it has to handle all cases. Dunno, I simply thought that - consider creating a new tracker - there could be consense that it only has to sound good, and maybe it could even be edited with numbers only, and plugins creating their (sample perfect) curves from this, etc. I’m simply thinking about how a open source tracker could look like, I should have told this. I’m not the one to tell what you should be able to do with music software. It’s my personal approach, and it may differ.
It is that I do not see any complications at all whatsoever.
I will be very clear now.Fixing the automation editor is as simple as sitting in a chair and programming, concentrating on this area, and leave the stupidities aside.It’s very clear.You do not even need to change anything about the GUI. Just improve the workflow.If it involves mathematics, they apply, for this they serve.Is it hard work?It also costs to create Redux, but there it is.It is not sophisticated at all, is to sit in a chair and write the code. How much? What a professional programmer will consider to improve the workflow, knowing that it is aimed at a music composer.Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it).I will repeat the last sentence 3 times:
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
…
And now the explanation we all avoid writing in the forum:if the automation editor is not improved, it is because Taktik not he wants, he will have other priorities in his life o will be satisfied.But here we are not discussing that, but the software itself.There is no problem in analyzing any work area and improving it, including automation editor. But this is just one example of so many.
Now you talk about open software.What do you mean by that?Do you want Renoise to be open to you can manipulate it?What a way to divert.
I ask to you: Have you used the automation editor of Renoise in depth?Forget about other DAWs.That it is not possible to work comfortably with him.Nor is it not a question of the anyone’s taste neither compare DAWs and mixing things.If something is not right, it can be improved. Point.
It is that I do not see any complications at all whatsoever.
I will be very clear now.Fixing the automation editor is as simple as sitting in a chair and programming, concentrating on this area, and leave the stupidities aside.It’s very clear.You do not even need to change anything about the GUI. Just improve the workflow.If it involves mathematics, they apply, for this they serve.Is it hard work?It also costs to create Redux, but there it is.It is not sophisticated at all, is to sit in a chair and write the code. How much? What a professional programmer will consider to improve the workflow, knowing that it is aimed at a music composer.Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it).I will repeat the last sentence 3 times:
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
Only a matter of time and will (desire to do it)
…
And now the explanation we all avoid writing in the forum:if the automation editor is not improved, it is because Taktik not he wants, he will have other priorities in his life o will be satisfied.But here we are not discussing that, but the software itself.There is no problem in analyzing any work area and improving it, including automation editor. But this is just one example of so many.
Now you talk about open software.What do you mean by that?Do you want Renoise to be open to you can manipulate it?What a way to divert.
I ask to you: Have you used the automation editor of Renoise in depth?Forget about other DAWs.That it is not possible to work comfortably with him.Nor is it not a question of the anyone’s taste neither compare DAWs and mixing things.If something is not right, it can be improved. Point.
I can’t exclude that Taktik will at some time take a break and do improvements. And I think, it’s good to point out very, very, very, very, very exactly with Videos & Text what part of the automation you want to have changed, and reason about if it’s really “just programming for some time”. Then send it to him, and ask him why it can be done or not.
What happens here is that (Renoise) development and communication engagement is at a point where users try to fix the situation. It would be silly to continue this. Though, I appreciate your ideas, to think about your piano roll design and everything, and I think it would be possible for us to agree what exactly - probably - should be fixed. But when Taktik does not put a post here, it’s no use going on thinking what could be broken in Renoise.
I can’t exclude that Taktik will at some time take a break and do improvements. And I think, it’s good to point out very, very, very, very, very exactly with Videos & Text what part of the automation you want to have changed, and reason about if it’s really “just programming for some time”. Then send it to him, and ask him why it can be done or not.
What happens here is that (Renoise) development and communication engagement is at a point where users try to fix the situation. It would be silly to continue this. Though, I appreciate your ideas, to think about your piano roll design and everything, and I think it would be possible for us to agree what exactly - probably - should be fixed. But when Taktik does not put a post here, it’s no use going on thinking what could be broken in Renoise.
In the forums we can discuss what we want with free opinion, even talk about improvements, ideas, or transformations. What the Renoise Team does with your time is another story, and what Taktik believes too.
Nothing happens for talk about things.Absolutely nothing!These forums are interesting for that.
I’d go for Ableton + Max for Live perfect for creating Psytrance. Check out https://www.youtube.com/user/PsiloCybianLive best Tutorials by PsiloCybian …this guy demonstrates the depths of it. Bitwig is awesome too but I think with Ableton +Max for Live together you get way more instruments,effects and really good, useful tools. And Abletons Operator is a universal beast imo. GOod for FM, Acid sounds, Kicks, Bass and all that nice subractive jazz.
So is renoise + reaktor = All patchulli chicks will instantly recognize if it’s made with reaktor , their Yoni will evaporate !!!
…Holly PsyTrance …
Granted , operator is a helluva of an FM synth , it would be on my to buy list if it was available as a vst …now that it has those cytomic filters …woow
So is renoise + reaktor = All patchulli chicks will instantly recognize if it’s made with reaktor , their Yoni will evaporate !!! cytomic filters …woow
yes only operator has the perfect algorhytm, that makes true analog fm sounds thru any DAC.
i heard that reaktor sonds too digital. i am paying customer and i want to get most for my money.
i bet fckn taktik getting all those bj’s in his buggatti while blazin fat johnny every #420 seconds! meanwhile we - customers are strugglin thru life, making whack bets, because of missing features!
evaporating yonis = A GOOD THING
I love reaktor .
Digital , Analogue …who cares …reaktors latest core ZDF filters are on par with cytomic …they are really that good .
The tech has always been there since reaktor 5.0 ( 2005) , when core got introduced ( N.I. bought out vadim zavalishin a.k.a. Dr.sync /Sync modular ) …that program was light years ahead of reaktor , dsp wise you could write your own algo’s , like I said …this has been ported over to reaktor 5.0 .
In 2008 zavalishin posted a paper and some reaktor ZDF filters in the library ( first ever ) …the rest is history .
Now we’re on 6.0 and it seems that N.I. is investing a lot of time and know how in both developing top notch core algo’s and enseMBLES
Bitwig was mentioned several times here. I played with the demo last weekend and i love it. Buyed a licence yesterday. The clip launcher workflow and the note expressions are amazing features for me. The video streams of the musician Polarity onyoutube shows perfectly, how good the workflow can be. I’ll use it next to renoise 
Uh, isn’t v2.0 just on the way in end of january? Will be there a grace period for updating? I don’t know…
There are currently just rumors. I asked the sales team of bitwig. There will be a grace period, meaning anyone buying the current version will get the next upgrade for free. They also said, i dont need to worry
Oh interesting! Thanks.
Bitwig was mentioned several times here… I’ll use it next to renoise…
Bitwig and Renoise both work well on Linux.
So you know your not stuck with Windows or Mac.
I’d say go for Bitwig. I bought an used license for round about 130 € at KVR Forum. Ableton has probably the better synths and DSP’s though and is more mature. On the other hand Bitwig’s strength is modulation and midi expressions. For me as a Renoiser Bitwig is much more familiar than Ableton and IMO has the better GUI and workflow. Bitwigs is the perfect mix of Renoise and Ableton features. Also the Bitwig roadmap is interesting (work together with other people via internet and so on).
I’d go for Ableton + Max for Live perfect for creating Psytrance. Check out https://www.youtube.com/user/PsiloCybianLive best Tutorials by PsiloCybian …this guy demonstrates the depths of it. Bitwig is awesome too but I think with Ableton +Max for Live together you get way more instruments,effects and really good, useful tools. And Abletons Operator is a universal beast imo. GOod for FM, Acid sounds, Kicks, Bass and all that nice subractive jazz.
Thanks guys! After nearly a month of reading manuals, forums, watching YouTube tutorials and toying with the demos for Live 9, Bitwig and Studio One I decided to go for full fat Live 9 Suite and purchased the license taking the advantage of 20% discount which is still available until 11th Jan 
Uh, isn’t v2.0 just on the way in end of january? Will be there a grace period for updating? I don’t know…
There are currently just rumors. I asked the sales team of bitwig. There will be a grace period, meaning anyone buying the current version will get the next upgrade for free. They also said, i dont need to worry
I don’t think 2.0 is coming out soon. I also exchanged e-mails with support (Mea, I think?) and from the way she was phrasing it it seemed like it’s far off, although she also told me there will be offers for people who bought 1.x license shortly before 2.0 becomes available, so who knows…
Would someone provide a link stating where they heard that Renoise Dev is dead? I mean, we just had an update a couple months ago, no? I’m really happy with Renoise and would be bummed if it ended.
Relax dude, It’s ok… the reports of it’s demise are greatlyexaggerated
Been playing with bitwig demo .
Damn fine program , only thing missing is a tracker interface .
I bloody hate pianorolls