You are smart enough to power on a PC and fire up a sequencer … I find it hard to imagine why you might also be whining like a child in the face of a short period of silence here from the devs. Do they owe us something maybe? Do you feel like you have been short changed? Yes? Then why not put down, in black and white here, what those grievances might be … don’t mince words : what is it that you want?
Simply type it … at length … get it all out into the open … so that we (and you) might begin to understand where the deficit actually lies.
You are smart enough to power on a PC and fire up a sequencer … I find it hard to imagine why you might also be whining like a child in the face of a short period of silence here from the devs. Do they owe us something maybe? Do you feel like you have been short changed? Yes? Then why not put down, in black and white here, what those grievances might be … don’t mince words : what is it that you want?
Simply type it … at length … get it all out into the open … so that we (and you) might begin to understand where the deficit actually lies.
Who is this question to? Sounds like it’s you who’s whining… :rolleyes:
Anyway, to answer it - in my case the thing that bothers me about Renoise and that I think will never be resolved is the rigid structure of a pattern, i.e. the fact that all tracks are tied together horizontally, so whenever I want to do an arrangement over time I need to copy & paste or cut the parts in unused tracks, I need to keep track of the automation per pattern (because there’s no such thing as global automation) and even within tracks I usually have musical loops of different length: from very short (like 1/8th of a pattern) to very long (spanning several patterns). Considering I don’t have a lot of time for my music writing hobby (2-3 hours / week if I’m lucky) it becomes really difficult to actually complete anything, because I simply forget what was where. What I was hoping for Renoise would get eventually is (varying length) tracks detachable from patterns, organised as clips, ideally with separate automation clips. Something like Buzz Tracker’s sequencer, but hopefully evolved. I love the tracker interface of Renoise to enter & edit notes, I love the flexibility and quality of internal FX, sample-focused instruments, etc., but as soon as I have my draft idea done I’m getting stuck with this mind-numbing, tedious copy / paste / delete loop that’s simply killing my workflow. Instead of just writing music, I feel like I’m doing some esoteric programming or creative accounting. That’s why I turned to hybrid clip & timeline -based DAWs (Live, Bitwig), even though VSTi-s or the pianoroll are an alien & foreign concepts for me. I bought Renoise only recently (when v3.1 was published) and will definitely come back to it once in a while, mostly to quickly get some things done that are more complicated to achieve in “traditional” DAWs.
Obviously I did try it (and Psycle as well), but I can’t get past the outdated interface, lack of graphical automation, cumbersome integration of MIDI controllers, etc. Also, one of it’s definite strengths - the modularity - is a huge productivity killer for me: if I have endless list of available devices, parameters and ways to connect / modulate them, then I’ll spend hours toying with them instead of progressing the tune.
No wonder they manage to update often with those prices.
Why are people even people comparing this BitchWig to Renoise and expecting that Renoise should be able to keep up with a money machine like this? If i paid that kind of money i would also expect frequent updates, bug fixes and improved features.
I wouldn’t have a problem, if the Renoise team would switch to a similar licensing model to get some food or freedom to live. Ok maybe not 379 euro for a full version If we could then assume to get some updates
No wonder they manage to update often with those prices.
Why are people even people comparing this BitchWig to Renoise and expecting that Renoise should be able to keep up with a money machine like this? If i paid that kind of money i would also expect frequent updates, bug fixes and improved features.
I’d gladly pay extra EUR200-300 if Renoise implemented the clip-based patterns that I described few posts above, because that would be a game changer for me.
Well I think the world will change now, after that Bitwig 2.0 announcement. What does matter more than the most sophisticated DAW in life? Bitwig + Redux = dream team. Renoise as a nice tool. Maybe it’s time to improve Renoise midi import/export business.
About bitwig…
They annonced a modular patching mode for 2.0 and network collab. long time ago and these are not in 2.0. Can’t hide a deception here.
No explanation about that on the website nor on the forum on KVR. Suddenly changing feature’s roadmap don’t help to build trust…
On kvr’s company forum, the owners of v1 are feeling they paid for beta testing the software and must pay once more for a real v1 (that is v2).
With the new licensing model of 12 month upgrade support:
you don’t know what features will be implemented during the supported year…
maybe your 12 month support will end with a buggy version
we dont know the pace of features and bug fixes releases with the new model
So until I have a better knowledge of company’s practices, I’ll remain a interested watcher.
Nothing’s perfect… (but Renoise is pretty close )
Indeed. In my case - as a fresh owner of Live 9 - I’ll wait with purchasing Bitwig until it’s got the feature-set I want, the modular environment in particular (couldn’t care less for on-line collaboration). By that time I probably won’t care for further updates.
I’veenjoyed working in Bitwig Studio since the 1.0 release. Won’t hesitate for a minute to get 2.0 when it’sreleased next month!
To me BWS feelssomewhat likethe closest relative Renoise ever had. So much that feels familiar in terms of GUI andfeatures. Actually I even find the music in thatofficial BWS 2.0 video to sound a bit like the Redux 1.0 official video (maybe same composer?). I also find Bitwig and Redux to be a very rewarding combination, and I’mvery thankfulto the Renoise developers for creating Redux.
Now regarding product upgrade prices… Come on now… 159 EUR is a new pair of jeans.Let me tell you an IRLstory:
Just around the cornerwhere I live there is this little café, whereatalented young woman is running her own business and she is the sweetest and hardest working person I’ve ever seen. Now if I want a cup of coffee and only take into account how much money I’ll spend, well… it’s obviously the case that I’ll find much cheaper coffee at 7-Eleven or some other biggerservice operating in the same area. But I guess at a certain point in life you start to look at things from another perspective (no, not that one you perverts).
So earlier this week I hear this rude guy snapping his fingers at this girl running the café as if she were some kind of lower life servant. A very demanding tone and the usual “I am entitledto XYZ” arguments… whichtendto be a batch of people I usually hate. Thisturd was then going for the “howdo you suppose you’regoing to make any money when you’re not committed to making your customers happy and give them exactly what they demand?” type of argument.
Butshe just smiled andresponded very politely that she wasn’t in the business of making everybody happy, butonly the select few. She also more or less asked him not to come back and disturb her any further with his retardedsense of life. WOW…
You see,THAT isexactly why I’ll continue to supportthis kind of business. Money is not the only price you pay for things. There are certain hidden values that go beyond the superficial and short sighted. Renoise andBitwigare similar in thissense, too. Lots of passion and idealismhave goneinto the making ofsuch products and that isn’t something to take lightly in today’s superficial world.
I’ll just pay the 159 EUR for that yearly Bitwig update without even blinking. And whatever taktik is working on these days, I’ll probably grab it upon release without blinking as well. Not everything can be measured only in terms of money or features.
If we could then assume to get some updates 
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