Record Controller Changes From Midi Keyboard

hello taktik/bantai/it-alien :)

i have a virus TI controlling a VST. when i turn the knobs on the virus, it responds in the VST automation device. so all good.

however, when i go into record mode and try to record the controller changes, it does not record onto the command lane in the patterns. its like i am changing the knobs using the left mouse button instead of the right - if you understand?

any ideas? :)


no ideas?

yes i did… and it records notes, note-offs and velocity… but none of the knob movements are recorded onto the command line.

weird huh?


Have you tried solving this through automation of a MidiCCdevice?

if this was the case… would it then receive and record notes, note-offs and velocity information? has to be something else…


But we are not talking about midi mapping here?
This is just like moving/tweaking a vsti in the vsti editor using a mouse right?
This is currently not possible to record.

ahhhhh… so it is not possible. i have to use my mouse on the vsti-automation sliders then? or ofcourse draw it into the automation window.

well, thanks then :)


I’m not sure. But it’s probably not sending any midi at all to the vst.
It’s connected with usb where it also send the audio stream to the plugin I think, so it might have it’s own protocol and stuff for changing parameters?

Xerxes: can you see anything about midi cc mentioned in the manual?
I know the Ti can be set in a ‘Remote Mode’ to act as a midi controller for other external stuff. Maybe it could then Remote Control itself through midi. Though this would still not be optimal.
You have to try and see. Ultimately Renoise should somehow be able to detect and then record parameters directly from changes in the vst GUI. But thats another feature request.

ps. blir det noen godlyd ut av monsteret?
Kjøpte du den helt ny eller?

Edit: added a few lines…

i´ll answer all these when i get home from work later today :) a bit hard to answer things without sitting infront of the TI and renoise…

here is a very short and not very well done test tune… using 100% TI.…ng_virus_ti.mp3


If you can send your controller signals to Renoise to process, you can use the VSTIAutomate device to make the values apply to the VSTI parameters, but this is indeed not optimal since the current positions of the knobs are unknown by Renoise to directly synchronise them into the exact values for the VSTI parameters. They need to be syncronised manually (either move them a little bit or in the worst case set the parameters to lowest points and set the controllers to lowest point). But if they are synchronised, they will work, don’t know if the steps are optimal as well however.

Usually it is hard to share a midi device with two hosts because this is what is actually desired.

ok so… when i open the VSTi-automation thing… and start turning knobs on the TI, that works perfectly. knob movements and everything is perfectly in sync. so all the dialogue between the TI and renoise works well… and since the VSTi automation works too, i dont see how that can be a problem either?

the PROBLEM is… it just will not record my knob movements onto the controller lane. if i want it recorded, i need to do it with my mouse (using a right click)… according to pysj… it is impossible to have knob movement recorded, as it is not yet implemented. was he correct about this? is this feature on its way? is there a work around?


I can say for sure this is a missing feature :(
The workaround would be to try to send midi cc# from the TI that you map to the vstiAutomationDevice using the Renoise Midi-mapper.
If you change the TI to Remote Mode, this should be possible.
But you could get some weird side-effects from this. It depends on how the TI reacts to changes through the vstiAutomationDevice when it at the same time is in Remote Mode.

You just have to try this out…

And begging Taktik for a parameter-change-detection-recording-feature would certainly help :P

So if i understand you correctly:your knobs do not send a MIDICC signal or a signal that is not recognised by Renoise am i understanding correct?

Because if they are:you should be able to map the controllers to your vsti parameters in the vstiautomate device, this is the only way that you can use. However if the Midimapper does not respond or do not show the signal of your knobs, the checklist goes:

  1. Do your control knobs use the MidiCC convention?
  2. Do you need to assign those knobs to a CC channel and value on the device first? Some devices have the facility to assign a cc-value to your controllers on it, but this require you to set them manually by hand. This is different for each device. I have some controllers on my Master-keyboard which i can assign a MIDICC channel and value so that i can make them send a specific value but they are not set like this by default, so i have to configure the device first before i can work with that.

This is as far as my MIDI knowledge goes but there are much better gurus around that can give you a few more options you can checkout.

i will look into the midiCC stuff… but i didnt think that was needed. when i open the vst-automation device, it displays the virus TI and all the parameters it can control (which is a lot). the first one is filter cut-off. when i twist the filter cutoff on the virus, the cutoff controller in the vsti-automation device responds PERFECTLY. i can do this with ALL the different parameters. everything works. and when i press record… and start playing, notes and velocity and note-offs ARE recorded, however… the things that happens in the vsti-automation device isnt recorded. in order to record this, i need to hold my mouse on the controller, right clik and drag the movements i want to draw. then they are recorded onto the controller lane.

so i am thinking this has nothing to do with midiCC… why do i need to map something that CLEARLY works? the only problem is that it will not record.

i dont even know how to map midiCC to the vsti-automation device. is this what you suggest i do? i will read your post carefully and try what say there.

THANK YOU everyone for your efforts to try to fix this one… i’ll look more into it and try to understand what is going on… :)


Lets think of any other vsti now.
If you load a vsti and then add a vstiAutomationDevice for this vsti.
Now open the vsti editor
Tweak a knob using the mouse.
You will now see that the sliders in vstiAutomationDevice do move.
But there is no way you can record this movement using the mouse.
This is just the same with the TI.
I’m guessing the TI and the TI-vsti have their own language. So when you tweak a physical knob on the TI it’s like you tweak a knob in a vsti editor using the mouse.

Currently there is no way to record this directly. You have to use rightmousebutton directly on the sliders, or you can use Midi CC# mappings.

There are some reasons for this.
What would happen if you add a LFO device to tweak a vstiAutomation Slider?
Or what would happen if you had drawn a automation for this slider?
That would be a mess as the slider would be recorded all over the place.

To make this work without a mess, we would need something like for instance a little checkbox beside each slider in any device. That would be a ‘record any movement’ checkbox.

What I’m saying is that is not that easy to just implant this right away.

Now for the workaround:
I have not read the TI manual, so there is a bit guesswork here:

As said, your only alternative to rightclick sliders is to use MIDI CC# mappings.
If you set the TI in ‘Remote Mode’ then each physical knob/slider on TI will send MIDI CC# to Renoise (you have to connect TI midi output to the correct Renoise Master MIDI input in Renoise MIDI preferences.

When this is done, turn some knobs on the TI and watch if there is some midi activities going into Renoise (the little green light on top of renoise).
When this is working, then press Ctrl-M to open Midi-Mapper in Renoise. Now leftclick any slider in Renoise where you can read ‘No Mapping’.
Then tweak a knob in the TI. The knob and the slider will now be connected.
You can now control any vst/vsti/mixer in renoise using the knobs on TI.

Now try to Midi-Map to the TI-vstiAtomation Device. What happens?
I really can’t tell you what will happen, as I don’t have a TI.
I don’t know if you get some sort of MIDI-Loop, or that if the TI will not respond at all.
It really depends on how the TI works when it’s in Remote Mode.

wow pysj… is it ok if you are my personal hero from now on? that was quite some report. unfortunately your theory stops itself… because the TI must be in seq mode when running on a host sequencer. if i do remote, it will be able to control other VSTi synths, and your theory may work… but what i am looking for is controlling the virus itself… but oh well. no big deal :) i can use the mouse for now… and then perhaps taktik decides that it would be a good feature to implement knob recording sometime.


ps. synthen er helt fantastisk. absolutt å anbefale til alle typer elektronisk musikk… veldig musikalsk synth, kontra mange andre jeg har testet. også er den jo ingen stygg sak å hä på scenen live :=)

small update on this one… when i use the TI as a midi-keyboard to control the vsti-automation device, my knob movements ARE recorded correctly. everything works well.

so the problem is with the TI itself. taktik, do you know why this doesnt work? any chance access could be contacted?