► Renoise 3 Beta testing starts - announcing Redux

Not necessary wasted but it was a thought of mine. No we can’t have ALL that instead of Redux, of course not. But maybe ONE of the features to begin with, and maybe many users would appreciate it more than going to buy another daw just to get .
New features doesn’t need to be unique to appeal users as some of the big features in the want lists exist in the most other daws. Renoise is already unique and would probably be even more unique if for instance a piano roll was integrated in a clever way with the existing workflow of renoise and renoise as a tracker.

Sorry but your entire argument can not be taken as serious while you keep adding
You are making a wild assumption about the lost development hours on a plugin (Redux) that has not even been worked on yet and never backing up by stating what YOU believe to be the most important feature they should have worked on.
Ask ten users of any software what there top missing feature is and you will get ten different answers, so your is a major cop out

If you are simply saying “Piano roll should be added before they start work on a VSTi” then do so

Redux isn’t wasted time at all, it´s a very smart and ambitious move from the devs, where everybody wins :
-Other DAWs users, which will be renoised in their own DAW
-devs, with a market which suddenly grows from trackers/curious users to… Everybody ! And by selling a whole new product, they’ll get billions of dollars, girls and fame
-Renoise users, because I will have the possibility ( at last ! ) to share my stuff with other people who don’t use Renoise ( 99% of the world ), without painfully trying to make them use it… They will come naturally now ;)

Now the devs have to make Renoise 3 as intuitive as it used to be ( since 1.xx ) by improving the GUI, and since I’m sure they’ll do, they will get a lot of new users. The devs aren’t stepping away from Renoise IMO, this is just a clever way to make some renoise marketing by capitalizing on its originality, and at the same time being paid for it !

But since Renoise will get a whole new visibility, I think devs need to polish the beta more than ever so the new users will have the best Renoise experience… Don’t let them be afraid by the GUI please

Redux vst for people looking to incorpoorate tracking in their daw = perfect
But the most important reason why the majority is not using renoise is because it’s a tracker .
I can’t see why all of a sudden they would go berserk when redux comes out , it was the tracker interface that kept them away in the first place .
The new instrument design might be appealing , but they have to learn to use the tracker interface for that …and were back at the beginning …

I’m pretty sure the devs planned Redux to be be a gateway drug. Hope it hooks up some unsuspecting horizontalites.

Bungle, the whole purpose of my original post was to find out if people would rather see the development time going into the Redux plugin or into THEIR feature of choice. That’s exactly why I keep having the “feature” floating free and not defined.
If you want to know what specific feature I’d like to see before a Redux plugin, sure.

Actually not a piano roll, but still found in it’s idea thread. This excellent idea of being able to easy adjust note position/timing: Brainstorming: Piano Roll

No, at first they’re like “oh, it’s full of numbers, I don’t get it” and go to a more visually appealing DAW. But the ones who’ll try Redux are the ones who will be specifically looking for a sampler ( not a main DAW ) where Renoise / Redux is unmatched, and they’ll get the tracker approach with phrases and stuff… And won’t be afraid of using Renoise anymore.
I don’t think it’s the tracker approach which keep people away from Renoise, but the fact that it´s abstract : you can’t visualize waveforms, or notes, or an instrument icon, all you see are numbers. But once they’ll get the good sides of it with Redux in their OWN DAW ( it’s an invasion ! ), they’ll think twice.

Well, hopefully. At least it’s worth trying.

another option migh have been creating a new piano roll daw, based on renoise components

or doubling the price instead of doubling the user base

Indeed it’s the abstract aspect of Renoise that’s keeping people away from it, but as you also suggest: when more and more people will mangle samples in Redux (which other samplers can manipulate samples in the way Renoise can? - Answer: None) the distance will be shorter and shorter for them to try out Renoise as well.

My hope is that future Renoise 3.x versions will focus on the Content Libraries stuff, making Renoise the factory host for Redux library productions. We see this kind of concept in many other audio tools on the market today as well (Kontakt Player - full version Kontakt, REX loops and full version ReCycle etc). I’m extremely happy to see a product like Redux is finally becoming a reality, and I wish the Renoise developers much fame and fortune! :)/>

I’ll certainly do my best to support them in every possible way I can. Probably I’ll focus on producing some Youtube videos and introducing the Redux stuff for the DAW crowds I know best (just hoping they’ll add me to the list of alpha testers for Redux).

Is that so? It seems that Redux will mainly bring Renoise’s sampler to other DAWs. And I cannot see why I would use the Renoise sampler as a VSTi in another DAW. If I have to use an external VSTi sampler anyway, then I would just use a more powerful one (some of which are actually freeware, at least on some OS).
Well, the phrases of the sampler will bring a bit of tracking for arpeggios at least, that is true…

Renoise slicing is on par with Recycle… The slicing is really what makes a sampler… Not, “the delay, chorus, or reverb.”

The slicing is the most important part. + Renoise keymap is pro level key mapping…

@fladd because imho there is no better way to make rhytms/ beats/ than with a tracker …+ if redux has midi out .to control other vsti’s…
Redux as vst in audiomulch …OOHHYEAH

It’s not about the sliccesssss…
It’s all about the effect commmandssss

I think it will also have the tracker sequencer

Last post for today …
Have a look at vember audio short cirquit 1.1.2 (not 2.0 ) …it’s amazing and free ( developers is now working at bitwig )
Anyway about shortcirquit ,the way it handles slices , per sclice you can assign any parameter off any selected dsp block (filter, ring, effects etc …) …and there are lot’s of them …and high quality

The clues about Redux are actually there, out in the open, as the instrument section in Renoise is now completely self-contained - this is probably the part that Redux will offer as a VST/AU version. Which basically means that we’ll be able to trigger 120 phrases by drawing the triggering/corresponding note in the DAW pianoroll or recording it through the MIDI keyboards.

The effect commands and the phrases are indeed the strengths of such a sampler plugin, along with the macros. Take a look at other samplers like for example Vengenace’s Phalanx (which cost $259 for the basic version) and we soon realise that Redux could excel beyond contemporary samplers. Building content library drumkits and loops with the phrases will be a very appealing concept to many people, there’s no doubt about that if we take a look at the current market. Sure, there are more advanced samplers around, but Redux will most likely take the leading position as the high precision effect command level sample manipulation plugin, as this is the single feature that makes trackers much different from conventional DAWs and samplers.

EDIT: Phalanx is $259 not £259, a typo there

Modulation and using your own VST effects can be experienced as powerful as well…

Its really about the whole being more than the sum of its parts. Cause those only work because the thing slices so well; and that is only cool cause the fx commands, and those are only great because you can sequence on the pattern editor, and now in the phrase editor… Etc, etc…

I was shocked when I read this… Actually, its 259 dollars… Still, “everything vengeance is incredibly overpriced and silly.”

If the devs add DFD (Quite possible in Redux as it is standalone) then try this
Name the sampler VSTis that support these features
1 Round robin and random robin
2 Output per instrument or per note
3 Open sound architecture based on text and samples
4 Note on and off sample mapping
5 Macro/UI creation
6 VST/AU Win/OSX 32/64

I challenge anybody to find one that isn’t Kontakt (Lets not even get into Mach 5 and its horrific pricing), the challenger to Kontakts overpriced grip on soundware developers has long been the holy grail of the sample playback market (I know this because i am involved in that market and know exactly how many soundware developers have wanted a low cost engine for their customers)
I am a huge fan of Kontakt but i will be completely honest here, there is nothing and i mean nothing on the market that is as quick to set up instruments as Renoise now is.

Indeed, that’s very true.

What isn’t clear at this point, however, is whether Redux will operate on encrypted data or not. I think they need to allow for this closed option (i.e. inside Renoise, when exporting/building a Content Library) if they want the pro sound designers to join in.

Actually when doing some research on this a year or so ago, it turns out that the only “pro” sound designers who worried about encryption where those that where happy to pay the abusive (Correct word believe me) costing of licencing from NI for the Kontakt Player, that is a very very very small portion of the sound designers out there and all the other could not care any less, And on top of this a portion of those paying for the licence would have been happy with unencrytped samples anyway.
Getting developers to support the platform is a lot less about encryption and much more about making their life easier and more fruitful, IE make it easy to port previous work and have a user base willing to buy/expand their libraries.

People do need to note that Renoise instruments are not quite ‘there’ yet
Couple of obvious things that sound designers will just not go for
1 No choke/mute groups (I suspect this will be added to the modulation section and therefore will ultimately be the most advanced choke/mute system around, imagine for instance a choke being use dto not just cut a sample but duck it or drop it’s cut off)
2 No DFD (This is a no brainer for larger content)
3 Non standard keymapping (0-127 for velocity mapping is needed, Sample numbering needs to not be hex and so on)
4 Higher definition (Things like sample offset are not actually high enough definition for lots of uses)

There are other things, but it is pointless going into any of this until they have a Redux beta (I doubt anybody who isn’t Renoise alpha will get to be Redux alpha, which i is a shame, but hey)