He just hasn’t spend enough time, learned how to compose in Renoise compared to his old workflow. I’ve tried Buzz and prefer Renoise, maybe because I haven’t spend enough time to learn Buzz.
I respect the prioritizing that the devs have made. The tight integration of sequencing and sampler is the Unique Selling Point of a tracker.
Personally I would have preferred if the team didn’t focus on polishing what is already good, but instead fixed and added features that are severely lacking. Then moving on to polishing and improving. I think the problem is that some of us have a vision that Renoise could be a full-fledged DAW, while the devs seem to focus on making it a ‘techno machine’. The tracker stigma still lives, which is a bit sad to me.
Still, I have gotten great value for my money and I’m still eager to see what will happen in future versions!
“I don’t think they are being “pulled in a million different directions”… Slight exaggeration there.”
of course it was an exaggeration. i’m not sure i’ve ever heard any one ever say “a million” and literally mean “one million”.
“I don’t mind if the devs have their own vision - but it would be helpful if they SHARED it with us all BEFORE beginning coding!”
see, i think the exact opposite. this is their project/vision. i’m just along for the ride. i bought renoise because it inspired me with it’s functionality that it had at my time of purchase. i didn’t buy it for ‘what it might be someday’. i think that’s a big downfall for users and devs alike. if you buy something for a feature that it MIGHT have in the future, you’re already doing yourself a disservice. because then it becomes less about making tunes, and more about chasing updates. and that’s no fun for anyone. well, in theory it doesn’t seem like fun, but these gear boards are flooded with fools who do nothing but take joy in crying “missing features”. missing features? RTFM before you buy. if it’s not there when you bought it, it’s not missing.
“It’s literally crazy to just go ahead and implement things which require years of work, without letting everybody know what you are working on. So you’re bound to get loads of people who are unhappy.”
for me, that’s like saying musicians should have to send out their music to their fans before they release it to make sure they like it, before they release it. i’m so glad that doesn’t happen. just make your music. if they like it, great. if they don’t like it, great. simple.
“If you want to increase sales of Renoise, Taktik, maybe you should have implemented the things which were the most wanted - piano roll”
i can’t speak for taktik, but i’d say it’s safe to assume that renoise is not a money making venture. sure, it puts food on the table, but it’s a passion project above all else. people pay 4x the amount for a single virtual instrument than they do for renoise, which is a whole production environment. if the devs were into making boat loads of cash, they wouldn’t be designing a niche product like a tracker to begin with.
“I won’t call it ‘Buzz Sequence Editor’ any more, as that term makes people think I want Buzz…”
“I just knocked up a short song in twenty minutes in Buzz.”
“In Renoise I would be battling with the Pattern Matrix right now, in order to simply put this pattern here, which took me a second in Buzz’.”
just use buzz, homey! it’s a great program.
“I don’t have anything against any of the improvements in Renoise 3, some I will use, some I won’t, but it’s the essentials of the interface that you could really help us with - ask us for suggestions, let’s debate everything and see what works and what doesn’t, listening to objections from everybody, and then make it as streamlined and keyboard friendly as possible. Jumping from the keyboard to the mouse, to get to certain parts of the interface, really slows down songwriting.”
i understand and appreciate this sentiment. unfortunately, democracy rarely works with creative concepts/ideas. the more hands that are in the pot, the longer it will take to cook, and usually the end result will be watered down for the sake of appealing to the masses.
RENOiSE 3 FOREVER!!! 
Seems like many are forgetting this. If I wanted a DAW with tracker- and piano roll interface and modular routing and direct link to NASA I would expect it from a product costing a lot more. I don’t think it’s realistic to expect all of these things to come at once. And even if they never come Renoise is still an awesome piece of software, if I really, really wanted these things so badly I would just use a piano roll DAW.
You haven’t used Buzz, obviously…
Watch this, and read this thread:
I have explained in HUGE detail what is wrong with the Pattern Matrix. If you haven’t used Buzz’s Sequence Editor, you don’t know what you’re missing, and have grown accustomed to doing things the difficult way, yet you think it’s perfect!
So you’re saying nobody who’s paid for Renoise should have a say in how it improves in the future? You’re actually saying that “you’re just along for the ride”? LOL. So the devs should just blindly do whatever they think is right, and then wonder why so many users don’t like what they’ve spent years working on? Are you presuming that I don’t like ANYTHING about Renoise, and only want the Buzz Sequence Editor implemented? LOL
Yes, of course, I’m always “chasing updates” and not writing songs… LOL
I don’t know why you can’t understand basic English. The ONLY problem I have with Renoise is the Pattern Matrix. I’ve come from a superior sequence editor, in Buzz, and the Pattern Matrix is unfortunately much more time consuming and fiddly to use than the Buzz Sequence Editor. That is a fact, I’ve demonstrated it clearly with videos, very long posts with screenshots, I don’t know what else I can do.
I haven’t seen any posts about “missing features”… LOL
This is nothing like that. This is about a TOOL that people USE, not about music, which they listen to… You have a weird and confused view of reality…
More strawmen arguments. Renoise is commercial precisely because it means the devs can AFFORD to spend more time on it. If it weren’t commercial, it would be stuck at version 1 probably, and I wouldn’t blame them.
You’re actually suggesting that adding features that MOST users want is a bad thing! You’re literally crazy. Go away and stop ruining things for the majority - who strangely enough, actually want the things they want, implemented in Renoise…
Again, this is totally irrelevant. SOME VSTs cost four times the amount of Renoise, plenty don’t, I just got Dimension Pro and Rapture for about £15 each from Cakewalk. Stop using strawmen arguments.
Your argument is that because YOU don’t care what the devs produce, nobody else should, and paying customers shouldn’t be consulted and listened to. Brilliant.
And? I can’t use Renoise to write songs very easily because of the Pattern Matrix, so I used Buzz. Which part of “I want to use Renoise with a Buzz Sequence Editor” can’t you understand? This is laughable…
You must be really terrified of change, mustn’t you…
What would be wrong with implementing the Buzz Sequence Editor in Renoise, instead of the Pattern Matrix? Do you even know WHY you’re trying to defend it? LOL. On many, many occasions I have asked Renoise users to make videos showing how they use the Pattern Matrix, and showing how they would do stuff I can do in two seconds in Buzz, in the Pattern Matrix. NOBODY has risen to the challenge. So you ALL know that the Pattern Matrix is inefficient and unnecessarily difficult and time consuming to use, yet some of you will defend it to the hilt!
Absolute rubbish. But nice try. Please elaborate. So if most users want proper MIDI routing, it would be “watered down”? Why? This is pure conjecture, and that’s all you’ve got…
How much does Reaper cost for non-commercial use? (That would be MOST users of Renoise, no doubt.)
Who is expecting “all of these things to come at once”? We are complaining because the devs went ahead and did what THEY wanted, and didn’t implement what WE wanted. No piano roll DAW offers the Buzz Sequence Editor, so what are you talking about?
I felt I had to respond directly to some of the things Taktik said, because they go against everything I thought any group of devs would think about music software they are creating:
Umm… yes. Obviously. What else would it be? What most people DON’T want?
I totally disagree. If software prevents you from doing something easily, it takes you more time, at which point you may have lost the idea you were trying to record, edit, etc. Taking you more time means you may just not bother doing whatever it is that the software makes more difficult for you, and write your music differently. Say you want to record audio and it’s difficult in Renoise, you might not be able to write the song you wanted to, because it takes you so much longer, and frustrates you so much, that you can’t do it. We only have limited time. Software should be designed to make things as easy and quick as possible, all the time.
Again, I totally disagree, and I’m sure most users of DAWs will disagree. The DAW is a tool, and if the tool is designed in a way that makes life difficult for you, you have to work harder and longer, unnecessarily. That’s the MOST irritating part, when users can easily see that they are performing unnecessary actions to do things that should be easy (like having to click through certain screens to access some function or other, etc.)
There is no workaround for the Pattern Matrix problem. Adding stuff that I never use doesn’t inspire me either.
I agree, but how can you know if you’re giving your users the workflow and interface they want, if you never showed them what you were working on, until it was finished? All that hard work and you don’t even know if it’s what people actually want.
It’s the same with user interface design: Microsoft have lost billions of dollars because their interface designers came up with ‘The Ribbon’ the ‘Metro’, which most users can’t stand. They allegedly did ‘testing’ but obviously the people responsible for interface design at Microsoft have to CHANGE things in order to justify their jobs, so nobody can trust their ‘testing’ results’. And what was the result? Most people hate Windows 8 because the fools removed the Start button and forced them to use Metro, etc.
Again, this is totally wrong and really concerns me. When people are writing music on their computers, they see other DAWs and test them out. They know that DAW ‘x’ can do so and so, but the DAW they are using can’t. They KNOW that their life would be made easier if they had ‘so and so’ functionality in the DAW they are using. It’s nothing to do with being stuck in what they are doing, it’s about feeling restricted and hampered when your DAW makes you do things you know aren’t necessary, or plain can’t do what you want at all (like recording audio, MIDI routing for arpeggiators, etc.etc.)
The issue is that the USERS, and the users alone, can SEE and experience every day what is holding them back in their DAW. I tried FL Studio and while I liked much of it, I can’t paste clips in with a mouse, it’s laborious and time consuming, and ridiculously slow.
Yes - since you devs only have a finite amount of time, and spent it on Redux, rather than adding features to Renoise which would bring in more sales.
You can keep Renoise alive by offering the features that users and future users actually want, above all others. It’s that simple.
That is all that I want - let us see what you are planning, don’t go ahead with major stuff that takes you months or years to do, without showing us and listening to our input.
Renoise 3 is no worse or better than 2.8 for me, for those who like the new changes, great, I hope they produce great things with them. For now I’m back to Buzz because I can’t write songs the way I want to, with the Pattern Matrix.
Even if we would have included the top 10 most features discussed here, this would not have added a Buzz sequencer to Renoise.
You’re not talking about what the community wants. You are talking about what you want. This is just fine, really, but please don’t claim that you want what all others want and we don’t do what others want. This is not fair.
You’re also keeping this whole forum busy for a a few days now with your point of view. We got your point. Repeating it over and over and over again does not make it more valid. I’m sorry, but we can’t do something for you right now. We won’t add a buzz sequencer into Renoise during the beta phase, so this whole discussion does not really help anyone right now.
I’ll move all further discussions from you into “your” Buzz thread from now on.
Finally. Writing music in DAW you’re comfortable with is so much smarter than bothering poor Renoise devs. Glad you made this decision.
Whats all this talk about Buzz? Can we stop talking about Buzz and more about Renoise? Also, for the love of God - can someone on the DEV team do a video on the new features and how they make sense?
I’m not a renoise veteran like most of you, but as more or less a newcomer to renoise (and in the field of trackers in general) I have to say, I really really like renoise 3 and find it very appealing to people like me without a lot of experience with audio software (much more so than a lot of other DAWs I have tried so far). I have casually used the Renoise 2.8 trial version in the past and bought my first licence 2 weeks ago. I find renoise 3 very inspiring and appreciate the new features (especially the native convolver, since there’s not that many of them on linux). Please keep up the good work, whatever direction renoise developement may take in the future.
Just one question, taktik. Could you give a quick comment on the state of lv2 support for linuxers?
Is it on the agenda at all and can can we expect that to happen at all in the (not so far) future, or have you decided it’s just too much work and not worth the effort to implement it right now?
@ xg 2003 …dude just spend a few days with only the matrix sequencer …
The matrix is fast , fluent , etc…I♥ it
It does everything you want it to do , in a different way …more then enough …If you can’t get over the fact that renoise is not buzz …you have to make a decicion which program you want to use …sure …
Taktik and team …thanks for putting effort in making renoise a better program ,
But the modulation system needs some rethinking !
WHO ?
i’ll just concede right now that you’re right in every aspect. also, i tend to not respond to someone who uses “lol” a million times in one response. there i go exaggerating again…
Whoever is mucking up the Buzz forums with complaints and really specific demands in a rude manner, who is obviously the same person also posting in this thread with specific demands in a rude manner: Shut up!
Edit: Sorry, where are my manners? Shut up, please.
coughmosiscough
I just took a quick look at the new sampler, and I am really excited! Worth a 3.0 upgrade in itself for sure! Well done devs 
/> An extensive video tutorial on the new stuff would still be amazing! I see KURTZ did a few in french - any chance you could do those in English?
I just looked into bugs report and so many fixed! Guys you rule 
I expect new beta soon… Thanks for your hard work!
haven’t used my account like forever
just had log in and tell i like the improvement
takes a bit of getting used to, i had to get a second monitor to benefit to the full amount
but i like it
i think loads of people do. it’s just that they don’t mention it on the forum
Just my 2 cents
thanks and keep up the good work