Have you brought your concerns up to @taktik? I’m willing to bet that you have, but if you aren’t satisfied with the answers here, I guess you’re out of luck.
IMO, @taktik is the only person who is able to decide how much he charges for Renoise, so i don’t think it is a problem for the dev.
He could charge a lot more (and i would pay it to a relevant extent), but this would mean (from a developer’s perspective)…
- do more frequent updates
- maybe implement features you don’t want
- deal with a second, third… developer and maybe other employees (if the business grows)
- pay wages, insurance, advocates…
- lose time to actually code
- lose time for your family
It isn’t always about the money.
Maybe it’s simply better not to have a time schedule, to code when in mood for it and to charge less for Renoise.
I hope that explains what i meant.
PS: I also love Renoise and hope that it will work like it does for a very long time.
There are more and more billionaires in the world with many, many millions, when poverty in the world is exaggeratedly alarming and everyone ends up looking the other way.
It is enough that a crazy billionaire donates 1 million euros to Taktik to improve Reniose. Is there a billionaire in the world willing to donate calderilla for a good cause?
Unfortunately, almost all one-man and longlasting projects like Renoise end with just small or no improvement…
We have Renoise subscription ok. It can cover bugfixes and small enhancements. I am willing to support a developer and pay additional money for a bigger feature/module like a good piano roll (sorry Raul, your PRE is great and you have done maximum with current API but we know that the “hardcoded” roll can be more efficient). I am willing to pay additional money for bigger API improvements - support for LUA scripting is not common in DAW.
I would like to have new Renoise with new features but frankly to say I don´t need it. Finally, I am using combination of Renoise, VSTs, Reason 11 Intro in Cakewalk Bandlab free DAW. I have everything I need. Cakewalk Bandlab supports Rewire, VST 3. At now I am using power of tracker and DAW with piano roll together. Dreams came true.
You will never see a pianoroll integrated in Renoise. Taktik already spoke about it. Your tracker idea does not conceive a pianoroll. To compose is the pattern editor, which is even faster to add notes. You can only see a pianoroll through a tool, and this in itself is a miracle that it exists. Any complex tool like a pianoroll would work better under the hood, 100% integrated, such as the mixer. But then you would have two editors to do the same.
It seems good to me any method that involves keeping Renoise as stable and error-free as possible, especially with the theme of VSTi… Be a crazy billionaire, an annual subscription, or make Renoise more expensive.
But I think that many Renoise users are not willing to pay more. Many migrate to other DAWs, others use combinations of various programs, as you, and your money goes to other things. They would only pay if there really is a serious support behind, well proven. And the latter seems to be far away…
I would be willing to pay € 100 a year on a Renoise subscription, if there was a team behind at least 2 programmers, one of them full-time, working exclusively for Renoise, and always under the supervision of Eduard Muller. But I know that almost nobody would do this.
That is to pay € 400 in 4 years. It is to pay € 1000 in 10 years. Just a license.
Never say never, Raul. Tracker is not good for orchestral music. A combination of both approaches integrated in one DAW will send Renoise to another level and can bring new users. Of course, there is always a question for a developer who invests many hours of free time to some project, is it profitable? Time will tell, but probably and unfortunately, you are right.
What about more merch? Stickers, for example. The Renoise logo as a hologram, those 80s metallic stickers, and generally many colors… yeah, giant, fat, stickers with felt on them, to plaster laptops or jail cells with! Stickers with included LED lights and solar cells, plus some sensors and logic to charge during the day and illuminate the darkness wherever it may be found.
We need them, you want us to have them, where are the stickers, I ask?
This statement is very relative at least if you mean Renoise…
With Renoise you cannot change the metronome on the fly, for example when changing patterns (yes with a tool with a slight imperceptible delay). If they are pieces with the same bar, there is no problem.
With Renoise you can’t synchronize a piece of music with a video, typical for soundtracks. It doesn’t even have an optional timeline in the sequence, which could be vertical, to the left side of the sequence column.
For everything else, Renoise works perfectly as a DAW for symphony orchestra music. In the background it is only necessary to trigger notes and stop them, control the volume (velocity). Much of the resulting quality is offered by libraries, mostly for Kontakt. With a good machine you can compose orchestral music in a millimeter way. Most limitations are caused by the libraries themselves, and will occur in any DAW.
And to track the issue. Buying libraries for symphony orchestra is very expensive. Renoise costs €80. A library only for strings can cost you €300 or more, and it probably won’t sound very realistic. The same for the rest of the sections. You have to spend several salaries to get quality. It is true that the strings are the most complicated thing to record for a bookshop production studio. But collect everything you need to compose orchestral music. In the end, the least of the problems is the DAW itself. With Renoise with a velocity-sensitive MIDI keyboard is enough. You just need to know how to use both things in depth.
I’m going to ask a friend to print the Renoise logo on a 3D printer, on a figure about 10cm tall. I will place it on my table.
Just a friendly reminder. If you have some money to spare you can always use your account to purchase Renoise again, even if your license isn’t expired. It’s a good way to show some unconditional support IMO, and putting your money where your mouth is.
EDIT: Or give it as a gift to a friend, who isn’t quite likely to jump the fence on his own.
(my personal opinion) you are so wrong. If you do not have midi instrument, try clicking your notes into reaper for example, come back and let me know how that worked out for you.
i’m a schooled musician and i’m used to daws for quite some time, but when i found out tracker realm, i was blown away… straightforward composing with keyboard. mouseless.
- and the thing is that you have to feel comfortable like you do in other daw - to make it spark… not just fire it up and expect to write no9 symphony already
Renoise is great and we bought very elaborated software for an affordable price in the state it was/is. I cannot complain about anything. I very appreciate the last enhancements in Renoise. But every software can be better
I don´t agree. Yes, it is possible to compose a piece of orchestral music in a tracker. But we have to talk about clarity, simplicity a how straightforward is all the process. Fortunately, Renoise supports multiple note columns in one track, that feature is great. BUT, try to record a more elaborated piano song. The result is not well-arranged and clear. A horizontal sequencer is better and provides more clarity and simplicity in terms of the above mentioned. For dance or electronic music Renoise is a great app. To have both approaches in one DAW will be a dream.
I understand your thoughts. If you have some money to spare, yes a donation in this way is ok. But I don´t think it is the usual situation to pay again for almost no support and for software with no development in the close future…
- means that you are not comfortable in renoise - so there is no point on trying to be objective here.
Renoise doesn’t suit you? great, you solved your issue, move on. We who use renoise for all sort of stuff don’t agree (at least i do not)
simplicity = how well are you familiar to do specific thing?
try switching between ableton, reason, renoise and MPC in a day for a quick beat making, you would be teared up in chaos. There is no ‘simplicity’, there is certain way that application adopts which you can use, and choose which application to use based on your best/most-familiar/most-pleasant ‘way of working things out’
explain this? there is even a tool that does sort notes for you in this situation…
-and you really cannot compare all styles of music making as objective comparison of daws and renoise, since if you want to record your midi, you have to either adapt your style to ‘tracker’ realm, or just keep plain daw, it doesn’t make sense that you want piano roll in tracker realm? you can’t expect bicycle to fly you to the moon, right? you are just bashing with claims like these, like you do expect renoise to do all for you. Please…
If you say it for the “millionaire friend”, it is clearly an impossible situation (it was a joke). No billionaire would donate anything to Renoise. I guess you hadn’t taken it seriously.
For the rest, no one is suggesting to donate anything, but to pay more in exchange for something (such as a subscription), or even value more Renoise, or that is what I have understood. That is, a method that can be maintained over time and is fruitful for everyone.
But we know that these threads do not lead anywhere, and you already know why.
I don´t think you understood what I said. Maybe because of my english. Are we still talking about orchestral or a piano piece? I have been using trackers for more than 20 years. I am 44. I feel very comfortable with Renoise for almost all types of music. Renoise is the fast editor (much more than piano roll) and clear if you use 1-3 note columns in a one track. What I wanted to say, it is good to have another view/editor of your notes and that provides the horizontal sequencer. Maybe you don´t want it, ok, you are a lucky man. Maybe I am so old or more demanding or spoilt.
BTW You don´t have to click notes so much if you play and record your notes using MIDI keyboard correctly for the first time in any DAW… No problem to edit notes in FL Studio (for my taste it has the best horizontal piano roll I have seen so far). Try it.
If I don´t like Renoise I will not use it, ok…? I came from FastTracker era. That’s why I choose Renoise. During the time I have used or tried FL Studio, Reason, Cubase, Reaper and finally ends with a combination of Renoise, free Cakewalk and Reason. But I have to mention again, to have both approaches in one DAW will be more straightforward process for me and I believe for other users too.
Yes, talking about this topic without Taktik it is just chatting with no sence…
@Lemi Each person has specific skills with each DAW. From my point of view, I look at Renoise as an expandable software. It is not “only” Renoise, it is Renoise plus everything you can include through tools (which you can do yourself).
So, in certain situations, you can use the tools to add capabilities.
Do you want a metronome that can change the pace and the number of strokes on the fly? Create a tool.
Do you want a piano roll? Arm yourself with courage and create a tool.
Do you want to sort notes in a specific way? Magnificent, because Renoise is very strong here. You can make several different tools to sort notes as you want, even with live recording. Even for piano, you can divide the left hand and right hand by dividing into C-4 so that each note is recorded in 2 separate tracks. You can make tools to record directed notes on multiple tracks. That is all done with tools (to write). These capabilities are not offered by other DAWs.
This is how I understand Renoise. It is not only what Renoise offers under the hood, but there is the whole world of tools. And that’s why this software has value for me, because there are also the tools. If not, I think I would see Renoise as a lower DAW.
In fact, if I subscribed to a subscription for Renoise (hypothetically), it would be with the desire to see more improvements for the API. So I could continue playing with the construction of tools to my liking.
You also think that there are expert code users who also make their tools, and are only for private use. They don’t come to the forums to post them. There is a whole world here.
If you know how to record live track by track, you don’t need tools (in the context of my previous comment).
Yes, that’s why these threads often deviate, sometimes, from the theme of their creator.
What would Renoise have to receive for an annual subscription to make sense? Or for a fund injection system to make sense?
I can’t decipher everything that you wrote, but I’m pointing out that you can already pay more for Renoise than what is requested. It’s optional, though. That’s a pretty valid point imo.
Pay to increase your license period before it has expired?
This is good, but who does that? It’s like paying for something that should happen in a few years. I guess this situation creates uncertainty. People will look for more immediate results, don’t wait so many years to see the results.
I guess people are suggesting something more immediate, by looking at the time elapsed for each update.
Something like, “let me pay more, but offer me more updates, listening to the community”. I guess this sums it up. This is what I have understood in this thread. If I’m wrong, have someone correct me.
However, this should give users peace of mind. If this is optional, it means that some user, even one, will have paid for the renewal of their license before it expires. Which means that Renoise is going to have life for many more years.
If you have a license purchased for 3.0, it is valid for 4.0. What are they, 10 years? If you renew it, you will have 4.0 to 5.0. Is that 20 years?
That is the year 2,040. We can be calm then. I am not being sarcastic. It seems that this is serious.