I am not the only one to say that cubase and logic don’t sound the same. You people need to get used to it. You can do the math wrong or bad, you can put coloring algorithms in the sound of the mixer. You can have your channel strip on with bad channel strip code stripping bits out. There are things that can indeed go wrong in a daw, and they do in cubase.
I am not the only one who thinks this. They do not sound the same. I used the same files the same math in both of my renders, and they don’t fucking sound the same.
Very well said.
Opinions or statements? A good opinion is fine, but this topic almost seems like an attempt to troll the forum.
I’m frankly wondering why dBlue is wasting his time to try explain it again and go the way he predicted this thread would go as it is going that way:completely and utterly nowhere.
Perhaps some topics are too tempting not to respond to.
This one had Pandora’s Box written all over it, and I jumped in head first. 
MY point is that everyone assumes that the summing code is the same, and they have not reverse engineered the daws to know if this is indeed what is going on, they are assuming it with no evidence. I find this extremely annoying. I talk from my real world experience using all of these products. I have owned them all over the years and used them.
Funny because people on here doubting me have not used both extensively.
Saw studio and Cubase do not sound the same, neither do Cubase and Logic. They just plain do not sound the same.
You might be able to get a 3 track or 8 track simple song to null, but that is not a real world test at all. I am talking about huge tracks, lots of fx, and vsts, they all sound different.
i think everybody can agree on that.
Proof that they do sound different!!
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=181402
more proof
more people stating they sound different.
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=626750&sid=247600ce5841beef695592272e80867a
Even more people.
http://www.cubase.net/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=110626
And another.
I also remember cubase VST sounding horrid compared to cubase SX.
To say that daws are all math never change never get better its all the same math is silly. I’m serious, over the years audio engines have changes in sound quality. To imply that they are all identical is wrong.
I’m not calling you a liar or discounting your years of experience, nor am I trying to make the clearly ridiculous suggestion that all DAWs will be perfectly identical from a mathematical point of view. I’ve also read various forum posts out there from people claiming to hear differences, and I don’t doubt for a moment that Cubase or Logic is doing something different at some point in its processing. My speculation is simply that whatever you’re experiencing is some feature or quirk that is unique to that particular DAW; a difference in a filter or EQ curve on a channel strip somewhere, a difference in gain/pan law handling, or who knows what else.
I definitely recognise that every DAW can have its own unique overall sound. Yes there will be differences in each DAW’s native effects, yes there will be differences in how each DAW handles gain or panning adjustments, yes there will be differences in how each DAW handles send buses, yes there will be differences in how each DAW resamples audio to difference sample rates, and so on. These are all features that will be unique to each DAW and will potentially use extremely different algorithms or techniques to achieve their end results. This is not really what I’m talking about, though.
I’m just talking about testing the most basic features. I’m talking about importing a few audio tracks, mixing them together with no additional effects or other DAW-specific features, and then comparing the exported results from each DAW.
I agree that it may not be a perfectly valid real world test, but it does prove that the audio engines are doing pretty much the same thing at that basic level of playing and mixing signals together.
All I’m trying to say is that if a DAW was genuinely altering the original sounds in a serious way - ie. boosting or attenuating certain frequencies - then it should be possible to observe these problems using even the most basic mixing scenario. It should be possible to reveal the problem when simply playing and mixing a few unaffected tracks together, and not just exclusively with very complex projects. If Cubase’s low level audio engine was indeed boosting the bass frequencies as you say, then it should be obvious from the moment you add a simple audio track (without additional FX applied!) to the project, and it should be easy to prove this problem by exporting and comparing it against the same basic test mix exported from other DAWs.
Let me go back to your earlier test renders for a moment. It’s already clear that the entire mix did not completely null to silence, but that certain elements (the kick and bassline) did actually null to silence. The simple fact that those particular sounds nulled to silence proves that both Cubase and Logic were outputting those particular sounds in an almost identical fashion. So I’m guessing that the kick and bassline sounds did not have any (or much) additional processing on top of them, or perhaps you were using the same VST plugins with identical settings in each case. Nevertheless, those particular sounds were processed the same, and there was no artificial boosting or attenuation of frequencies when comparing them. The snare, vocal, guitar and other elements, on the other hand, came out differently probably because of a difference in how send buses are being handled by each DAW, which you already suspected and mentioned yourself.
In conclusion, the simple act of reproducing a sound or even mixing multiple sounds together is not a complicated task for a DAW by any stretch of the imagination, and so all DAWs are going to handle this in almost precisely the same way. If you load up some sounds, mix them together cleanly, and export the results, then the results should be identical* across the board.
- By “identical” I mean from a listening point of view and also when performing a simple null test. There will always be tiny differences in each result thanks to subtle differences in processing, but those differences are typically far outside the range of human hearing and are not really worth considering. There should definitely not be any huge differences like artificially boosted or attenuated frequencies when simply mixing a few sounds together. Any DAW that does this is clearly broken.
I’m just gonna chime in with my two cents…
The first link relates again to the interpolation/dithering. There are differences between renders made with different programs but it doesn’t really color the sound particularly. Rest of the links essentially are just people SAYING they THINK there is a difference, that doesn’t constitute as proof in any way. I don’t trust my ears, and even less anybody else’s ears. I don’t think they are any more accurate than your brain as a stopwatch. Most people probably couldn’t tell a difference between unpacked wave file and say 192kbps mp3 if it was a blind test, yet there obviously is a relatively huge difference.
Isn’t the audio mixing engine the most essential part of any DAW? I don’t see how adding values form the audio data together produce coloring of the sound in this way. Generally, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and you’ve failed to show really ANY evidence.
If there really is a difference, could you make a video showing how you produce this difference?
ps. not trying to be hostile, but really, where’s the beef? No need to respond to this because I can’t really provide any insight or opinions to this discussion, nor do I really even want to.
This made my chuckle 
I think cubase and logic do the bus stuff differently and that is why the vocals and snare and guitars ended up not nulling. I don’t agree that basic mixes will prove the engines are the same etc, I think the bigger the mix and more buss stuff going on like in real world applications that is where you will see the differences like in in my demos where clearly there were differences. Cubase has this soft dark sound that logic does not have.
Good music can be made in any daw. I will say this for sure.
I was messing around in cubase 5 today and man does it kick the crap out of renoise when it comes to recording midi and note offs. Can do fast twitchy bass rifs that renoise CANNOT DO and that is a big kick in the pants to renoise to me at this point.
I did a small test of my new music for my ears only, all made in renoise exported to separate tracks using perfect rendering.
Loaded them all into saw, cubase and renoise, summed them in all. Renoise won, had the most detail. I liked saw 2nd, and cubase last, cubase made it sound a little plastic, it still sounded bright, no idea why i think its because i wrote it in renoise, when i write in cubase I cannot get things to be that bright.
Still. Deal breakers? No. Cubase is ok, not worth the money to me, renoise is king it has great sound and its the easiest to use by far. Just fix note offs damn it! I cant stand using cubase now honestly. I love renoise so much now that since the added the block pattern edit thingy. WOW. Cubase sounds the softest. Saw sounds more lush and open and real. Renoise sounds in your face aggressive and detailed in a way that I love, but I could see others hating it for certain styles of music for sure. For industrial dance stuff I think renoise is simply the best.
When you clip renoise it rocks, it gets mean in a way that I love. Cubase takes a big shit if you clip it sounds so fucking bad. Saw sounds good when you clip it as well.
Please explain why daws sound different when they clip 
The latter is the mass you want to control, you can’t compare the big tracks and lots of fx to plain and simple and simple output.
If you want to compare DAW’s, you need to use a reference profile so you can compare the results.
The fact that nobody knows the internal routines of each software audio application force us to do these reference tests to make a point.
It doesn’t matter much how routines are programmed, a bald audio engine should produce the same bits and bytes as any other bald audio engine.
Whatever effect is addded to the audio chain in the DAW is up to the developer of it and hopefully, you can turn it off.
If you can’t then that is one good reason to claim a DAW sucks simply because it adds an effect you can’t turn off.
For any other claim about differences in output i can only say"Turn off all dials until the results are the same"
They sound a little different.
the work flow matters most as well, renoise is laid out the best, better than ableton even. Instant music easy to get soudns in and out, tabs, no window digging like in cubase, i hate that.
I say as many others around this topic has done, not this again! But I have a few thoughts on this that I would like to share with you … I´ve tested a whole variety of DAW’s over the years and I recently
learned that this “bad” or “good”-sound quality speech is TOTAL BULLSHIT (all DAW `S have exactly the same sound quality in the end!) I have previously used FL Studio, but stopped using it because I thought (and still think) that it sounded like crap! Many former FL Studio users would agree with me
in this matter (or at least I think they would). But to get to the point it is NOT musicprogram itself that sounds bad, but rather three other
factors! ;
1st. You lack knowledge of how to mix, a bad final mix can ruin your music. (Believe me I´ve been there MANY times!)
2nd. You absolutely love the program you are working in, but if it feels too “messy” or overbearing, this can also make your music sound like shit!
3rd And remember this for this is what I want to convey ! It is NEVER the music program itself that sounds crappy, but rather a
combination of my above points and the plugs that are either INSIDE the program and / or plugins you have installed
yourself (Remember that it’s a damn huge difference between plugins and / or synth plugins and music the program you use,
for there is not the music program that determines the sound quality, but you as a user with your plugins and your
musical skills !!
Thank you for reading (RollingThunder is Zzzleepy and needs a pillow)
Goodnight fellow Renoisers ! BTW; Yes I´ve used google Translate, but I think you can understand anyway…
Also remember, analog summing does kick the crap out of itb.
Christ’s sake? Really?
I’ll have you know I am an atheist!!!
come on cute woflies
I thought all the christians were supposed to vanish like a couple of days ago, Damnit.