Renoise Memory Limit?

[noby]

Just a quick question, does Renoise have some kind of virtual memory usage limit? I have some QUITE large samples (about 50 minutes, 96khz 24bit flac) that I’d like to import but I can’t fit all of them. Four of them go but on the fifth one I get this:

The files altogether are about 700mb, task manager shows that Renoises memory usage is about 1.8gb. I have 4gb of memory in total, 64 bit OS, and there are over 20% free memory so there’s at least should be no “physical” limitation here. Is this some universal safety precaution or what, just being curious. Also, at the time this get’s a response I’ve probably solved this one way or another but still does anyone know a good workaround for this?

[Maskin]

@noby

Just a quick question, does Renoise have some kind of virtual memory usage limit? I have some QUITE large samples (about 50 minutes, 96khz 24bit flac) that I’d like to import but I can’t fit all of them. Four of them go but on the fifth one I get this:

The files altogether are about 700mb, task manager shows that Renoises memory usage is about 1.8gb. I have 4gb of memory in total, 64 bit OS, and there are over 20% free memory so there’s at least should be no “physical” limitation here. Is this some universal safety precaution or what, just being curious. Also, at the time this get’s a response I’ve probably solved this one way or another but still does anyone know a good workaround for this?

As far as I know Renoise’s memory usage is limited to 2GB.

[kazakore]

And your samples may be 700MB on disk but doesn’t Renoise convert them on loading? This would make them quite possibly a lot larger, if going from 44.1kHz 16 bit to 48/96kHz 32bit float or something…

[noby]

And your samples may be 700MB on disk but doesn’t Renoise convert them on loading? This would make them quite possibly a lot larger, if going from 44.1kHz 16 bit to 48/96kHz 32bit float or something…

The Samples are already 96khz 24-bit FLAC files, I don’t think the quality gets changed in any way. I think though Renoise unpacks them to a PCM waveform.

Anyway I was able to import them by changeing the order I pute them in, dunno what’s that about but at least it worked. Also couple of weird bugs occured, as an example I was trying to cut small piece off one of the samples and it removed the entire sample (same thing happened multiple times).

[Maskin]

@kazakore

And your samples may be 700MB on disk but doesn’t Renoise convert them on loading? This would make them quite possibly a lot larger, if going from 44.1kHz 16 bit to 48/96kHz 32bit float or something…

Renoise only upscales the samples to 32 bit after processing effects.

[It-Alien]

there are some further considerations to take in count: when the operating system receives the request by Renoise for new memory, it searches for a consecutive block of free memory. If this seach fails, then you will receive the error. When free memory is low, there are lower chances to find such a big block of memory. The best solution to this is HDD streaming, id est: reading samples directly from the Hard Disk in small blocks, with the advantage of dramatically reducing the amount of used memory, at the cost of degrading perfomances and stressing the Hard Disk, which should also be as less fragmented as possible.
unfortunately, HDD streaming is not currently supported in Renoise, as of version 2.6. You could try using a VST sampler such as Native Instruments Kontakt, which anyway is quite costy.

[kazakore]

@Maskin

Renoise only upscales the samples to 32 bit after processing effects.

Surely you mean before as there is little point in applying all effect, quite possibly at different rates depending on individual samples, then upscaling once all done and not gaining any sonic improvements. Also it has to be right at the start of the chain as even simple things like volume level change are affected by this.

Although whether it’s the moment the sample is played (which must require a couple of CPU cycles) or when it’s loaded into memory (which would require more RAM) I don’t know.

[Haplo]

Renosie can load samples up to 4GB (in theory), I’ve tried and was able to get it up to aprox 3.7GB if I remember correctly.
But you need a 64bit OS and more than 4GB of RAM to achieve this.
Reason is that with a 64bit OS the memory can be used to support 4GB of memory for 32bit applications.
If using a 32bit OS and using 4GB of RAM you will only be able to use 2GB.
Since 2GB will be allocated for applications and 2GB will be allocated for Kernel-mode processes.

If using a 64bit OS and have 4GB or less, those Kernel-Mode processes will still need some amount of memory.

[Conner_Bw]

Upgrade to Linux?

[Maskin]

@kazakore

Surely you mean before as there is little point in applying all effect, quite possibly at different rates depending on individual samples, then upscaling once all done and not gaining any sonic improvements. Also it has to be right at the start of the chain as even simple things like volume level change are affected by this.

Although whether it’s the moment the sample is played (which must require a couple of CPU cycles) or when it’s loaded into memory (which would require more RAM) I don’t know.

You’re right, my bad. I should’ve said “while processing effects”. My point was to make clear that Renoise doesn’t upscale samples when you’re importing them.
I hadn’t even thought about playback resolution in a DSP chain, interesting question.

[Maskin]

@Bantai

Hm, I think that’s not entirely correct. The sample editor shows the original properties of the loaded sample, but that does not mean the sample isn’t upscaled. I believe all samples are upscaled on load. When edits or effects are applied, the sample editor shows different properties: effectively, a temp sample is loaded and replacing the original sample.

Example:

• load my_lofi_sample.wav - 8-bits 22050 Hz
• sample editor shows 8-bits 22050 Hz, but sample is upscaled to 32-bit 44100 Hz (matching the soundcard’s sample rate)
• process FX: Renoise processes load my_lofi_sample.wav and saves the result to a temp file temp.wav, also 32-bit 44100 Hz
• process done: Renoise deletes my_lofi_sample.wav sample and replaces it with temp.wav (internally), sample editor shows 32-bit 44100 Hz

This is some serious Renoise quantum physics, haha.

If samples are upscaled on load shouldn’t the resolution be altered when you’re saving the sample without processing?
Maximizing and volume changes don’t alter the resolution in the sample properties by the way.

[djnick (nykk deetronic)]

@noby

Just a quick question, does Renoise have some kind of virtual memory usage limit? I have some QUITE large samples (about 50 minutes, 96khz 24bit flac) that I’d like to import but I can’t fit all of them. Four of them go but on the fifth one I get this:

The files altogether are about 700mb, task manager shows that Renoises memory usage is about 1.8gb. I have 4gb of memory in total, 64 bit OS, and there are over 20% free memory so there’s at least should be no “physical” limitation here. Is this some universal safety precaution or what, just being curious. Also, at the time this get’s a response I’ve probably solved this one way or another but still does anyone know a good workaround for this?

FIXED!!! This is how it is done. Read carefully:

Ok here is what I did and for now it seems I don`t have memory problems on WinXp SP3:

- This was my Boot.ini file:

[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Then I added “/3GB” switch so line will look like this:

multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional /3GB” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB

And finally my boot.ini will look like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=10
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional /3GB” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

I set up default opening of WinXP to be with /3GB switch because I cant choose between WinXP and WinXP with /3GB switch. Cursor just dont move during booting countdown and I believe it is because I use USB keyboard.

So - procedure to stop memory leak in Renoise and use all 3GB per application would be like this:

• Rightclick on MyComputer icon
• Go to Advanced TAB, then start Settings button in Startup and Recovery
• Then go to EDIT button and boot.ini will open in text editor as textual file.

In my case [I have WindowsXP SP3]:

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Then I added COPY of bottom line to memory [Copy] and
[PASTE] it above with /3GB switch added to the word’s ends, twice, so final boot.ini file will look like this:

[boot loader]
timeout=20
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional /3GB” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect /3GB
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS=“Microsoft Windows XP Professional” /noexecute=optin /fastdetect

Save, close all opened windows and Reboot. And after that, you will have no memory leak! Renoise will work like it addresses 3GB of memory [instead default’s - two. You will have one more gigabyte to load samples!!!

[b]Thanks a lot, especially IT-Alien to help me try this!

p.s. if you type any letter wrong, it is written that Windows wont boot anymore! So be sure that you dont make any errors or blindly copy this boot.ini from my file to yours![/b]