What’s the actual status of zooming patterns in renoise ? i think simple filter would do for now - similar to “Block Loop” entry , you could filter out lines, so instead of 16 rows it would show only one etc,
having a detailed (fast) patterns is great for edits/drums but it’s quite annoying for writing pads/chords it doesn’t really have to be more clever than this , just filtering how many lines renoise pattern is showing
I agree, it would be great to revisit this idea. But if I were to re-do those screenshots, I would leave out the eye-candy; the transitions, and differently-laid-out “zoom levels” (although zooming all the way out to see the arranger state might still have some merit).
Like you’re saying, the various pattern lines could simply be filtered out, nothing more. The result would actually be akin to how a piano can instantly tell you where various pitches are located, only with beats instead.
For a common, accessible workflow, how about if the zoom level adapted to the current edit-step size and was made optional?
… Or whatever’s happening at that next level down. (Slight terminological confusion: I’m talking about “lower levels” which would actually have “higher resolution”. Maybe I should say “closer” and “farther” instead of “lower” and “higher”.)
If you had an offbeat subdivision somewhere at a x2 zoom level without a corresponding on-beat, it could just mark whatever’s closest at the x1 level. E.g., if you have some kind of crazily offbeat high-hat pattern, where it’s syncopated at x2 zoom, maybe it’d show something like this at x1:
…however, a collapsed look would not only afford you to show Snare snare snare snare,
but it could afford you a greater picture of the whole composition,
because only events are shown,
including intentional and measured silence.
TBH I don’t like the idea of not seeing some pattern data and not seeing others. Seems to easy to start to lose track of what’s abstracted and what isn’t (especially if you’re coming back to something you haven’t worked n in a while).
One alternative approach is that the sample editor is getting to the point where these sorts of microscopic edits are feasible. I’ve been experimenting with hand-carved glitch editing via the sample editor and it really works well with used in combination with mix/paste fades, and keyboard shortcuts for snap length - reminds me of my composing-in-soundforge days. Would like to have less-klugy control over sample effects processing via the sample editor but hopefully that’s coming in the future.
for me the problem is not in the micro managment but the “big” edits, like editing chords that span through several minutes of the track, to go from pattern to pattern because of high LPB is very annoying, an option to zoom out would solve this
what about an “Alternative LPB”? a button next to the LPB-thing that allows you to switch between 2 LPB-settings. say you have the “main” LPB set to 8 and then the alternative set to 16, and whenever you wanna zoom in and edit those fast hihats or whatever you just press that alt.lpb button, maybe a separate window would be convenient?
you can actually do this on an MPC so it should be doable in renoise? offcourse the MPC sequencer is a lot simpler and of the horizontal nature.
it may sound confusing right now, but if presented right it’ll feel really logical and easy i think!
no need to bother what happens between the lines. it’s up to the user to use the filter imo.
another idea would be a “collapsible view” of some sort: all empty rows disappear for the selected columns. kind of like an event list. edit: hmmm, wouldn’t help with moving notes about rhythm-wise but would be convenient for trying out chord progressions i guess.
However it works out, it’d also be helpful to keep the main beat rows “constant” and clearly distinguishable at all zoom levels, like the way you continue to see the start of a new measure in an ordinary, horizontal DAW at all zoom levels. It’d help keep yourself quickly oriented when zooming in and out.
Well, ideally you and anyone else who doesn’t like it would just always work at your maximum zoom preference, then. That way it’d act just as it does now, and you’d see everything at all times, nothing missing.
My post suggested a visual indicator for precisely the reason you mention: if one returns to a track after some time, having little signs that are saying “ZOOM IN HERE IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT’S REALLY GOING ON” would clarify things.
I’d be more concerned about newbies accidentally switching zooms and then getting confused because they can’t figure out where their notes went, yet they still hear them playing.
In thought, it sounds like a faster way to see the total data that the user has laid down, and the find tool helps in locating & placing the users attention there.
How to go about counting what brings up quite a lot of compositional techniques that could be discussed.
Tracking is not motorcycle racing
but I think we can walk away with some valuable information
observing how riders go about their decision making, clocking speeds that could kill, so precision and accuracy is key.
At 3:20, the narrator talks a bit about meticulous record keeping and how that helps in decisions.