Sampler Keyzones, Note Off Sample Doesnt Loop?

If we choose another sample for the note off , the loop in the sample editor won’t work for the note off sample
For example, note on is a saw sample cycle wave ( looped ) , for note off we choose a square wave sample = this sample wont loop , the markers are are visible but no looping .

We’ve done this on purpose, cause there else is not way to turn off such note off sample at all. Note offs for note offs don’t do anything, so the sample MUST stop playing by its own. We also thought about enforcing a decay for note off samples instead and allowing loops but this also isn’t that clear.

Not entirely sure how we should deal with this.

during alpha time we indeed discussed exactly about this. My opinion is that the user has enough tools to avoid endless loops if he wants, and should be able to have sample loop endlessly if he wants.

If he wants to avoid endless loop, he can use the volume envelope setting a sustain point and letting the envelope fade after it, otherwise the sample will loop forever. Note-off layer is a pretty advanced feature, so I think that the users who will use it are aware of the “panic” feature which would save their ear if an unwanted endless loop will eventually be generated. There is also a “fadeout” slider in the envelopes, which is not set to zero as default, so it should be used to eventually fade the sample out somewhen…

ok fair enough , this also means we can’t use short single cycle waves for not off messages ( as these require looping ,)
but it is quit confusing because the loopmarkers are still visible , thus the user might think there is something wrong .
What about greying out the markers or at least an indication that the looping is not available for the note -off messages

I personally favor the fade-out option of the envelopes or when the volume in the envelope itself hits 0, the sample is simply being cut.
If someone wants to play funny and loop his sample eternally without fade-out or ramping down the volume, the samples are simply cut when the full 24 notes are playing and a new note needs room.

I’m keen on finding an adequate solution to this issue, as it would open up many creative doors. Here are a few ideas I have knocking around, please poke as many wholes in them as you see fit, I’d like to keep this discussion rolling.

Using End of Envelope to end sample playback (and thus looping).
This seems to make absolutely the most sense to me and others as well. When an Instrument’s Amplitude envelope hits it’s last and final point in the envelope at ZERO, or when the release finally fades playback to ZERO after hitting the last envelope point (whether at zero or not) any sample playback activity is immediately aborted. It honestly doesn’t matter if any other strategy exists (ie: NNA), this is the absolute ruling and overarching strategy.

True NNA “Note Off” Mode
As of Renoise 2.8.x, the link between Note On and Note Off layers is one way best I can see. Upon Note Off, either via NNA “Note Off” or end of sample will trigger the Note Off layer. However, if a new sample is played on a track while a Note Off layer sample is playing, no similar behavior is defined. More simply, “Note Off” mode for a sample in Note Off layer is also non functional. Shouldn’t samples with “Note Off” in Note Off layer be killed on the next Note On sample trigger?

Is this at all reasonable?

Bumping a really old topic just to say that I would also like to be able to loop note-off samples. This is a neat feature available in Open-MPT that lets you have a different timbre for the note-off event.

As others say, infinite notes can be prevented by cutting them off at the end of volume envelopes.