Sandbox Forum

It seems discussions in here and other parts of the forum have been getting rather emotional, hard hearted & rather over the top argumentative.

So here is the idea:

Users displaying certain set of identifiable traits, get moved to the sandbox.

The Sandbox:

The Sandbox is a parallel dimension, and the user showing a set of identifiable traits essentially becomes a ghost in this dimension.
The ghost sees everything a regular user sees, can post and interact with other ghosts, but the regular users see nothing from these ghosts.
In a sense, this is an advanced ignore feature.

Inclusion: once a ghost is ready and has had enough. They begin showing another set of identifiable traits, that denotes they are ready to be included.

I know you guys don’t write the invision power board forum code, it’s just an idea I’ve had for a very long time.
Mainly becuase I thought it was happening to me on occasions. :)

You will find this on every single message forum on the internet, no matter where it is or what the topic of discussion is. Put enough people in one place and they will eventually argue with each other - it’s just an unfortunate fact of life that we have to live with.

Just try to be patient and understanding with new users, and try to help them as much as you can if possible. Be the bigger person and do not lower yourself to the level of arguing over stupid things, or arguing with people who are obviously just trying to troll and antagonise you.

The annoying users who want to stay here because they genuinely like Renoise, they will eventually learn to change their ways and become a closer part of the community, or they will simply get bored and find another forum to play on.

The really annoying users who want to stick around and continue trolling will obviously gain the attention of the forum staff/mods, and will probably get banned if necessary.

Trying to ‘fix’ this problem any further is completely futile, as has been proven by countless other sites in the past. The system we have now works. Be cool, ignore the idiots, and let the mods do their job. :)

You got that right, perseverance is a must in the world…

I was reminded of the idea after seeing this the other day:


“…Internet users infected by malware”

Agreed. Now get shakin’!!That’s what Renoise is for! :drummer: :drummer: :guitar: :guitar:

…Well okay, I agree with you. B)

you mean, everybody? because that does apply to everybody and everything…

Young padawan, thou have to stay positive to survive the mount Forum.

Well, at least this is nothing compared to the mount Bullshit that Youtube video posters have to climb.

Keep on rocking in the free world! :(

yes everyone, and anyone displaying an unknown variable set of identifiable traits.
In this manner the baddies help the system.

I took this quote from Collosus: The Forbin Project
“You will say you lose your freedom. Freedom is an illusion. All you lose is the emotion of pride. To be dominated by me is not as bad for humankind as to be dominated by others of your species. Your choice is simple.”

or you could go all the way, overcome the duality and simply herd those who think alike together. neural nets, bayesian filters and machines that go ping! :w00t:

the movie quite clearly demonstrates that this is not the case though, it’s just ignorance on the part of colossus (who must consider freedom an illusion just like a fish might consider living on dry land a myth), and it ends with the guy giving colossus the finger :P

But we do change our habits based on social experience.

When I saw the film, I had Collosus’s back the entire time. I had tears of joy so many times.

Forbin clearly built the machine to surpass humanity. Or he wouldn’t have given it the vast capacity to break through it’s own code like he did. Later on in the 2nd book Collosus saves the human race from martians.

**accidentally put a reply in your quote.

to me it’s just not worth it if we don’t do it on our own. if we can’t manage peace, we shouldn’t exist, since if the only thing that can make us peaceful is a machine, we might as well be replaced by robots. life is about more about than peacefully consuming all resources until none are left, and that’s all the machine knows to do. it will never hate, yeah, but it will also never love. it surpasses humanity in calculating power, yeah… but that’s it. otherwise it just hasn’t got all the parts we’re having trouble with. that’s like lobotomizing a youth and putting them on a leash because they might grow up to be a delinquent. but that’s a risk you just have to take, otherwise you’re throwing out the baby with the bath water in my opinion.

World Control, already knows this, as the benefit of it’s objective’s survival relies on the capacity to coexist with humanity. Without all of humanity to govern over, it is useless & un-needed. For instance, currently unless the organism of humanity is checked and rechecked throughout it’s entire existence. It will continue to grow, thus devouring it’s resources at whatever rate is accepted, not different than the machine you refer to.
Currently we are using war for all of this.

And Misdirection.

The physical human being, being an ever updating mixure of code sets, with much more.
Is easily susceptible to outside influence, creative and destructive habits.
The strongest or most accepted will always choose the direction humanity takes, even if it’s intended to be a complete misdirection.

Like dolphins, long ago they came out of the water, but then decided to go back, they liked it in the water.

Will never happen.
Users act normal and if they go overboard, they get a few chances to turn back rationally.
If they fail, they will be locked out for a while and if they really screw up, they get banned.
If they start spamming around, they get banned as well.
Most simple system and fortunately, we don’t need the most drastic measure that often here.

As long as they never shut down 4chan, that is. :lol:

good point, because after I posted that, I thought about how colossus might have been a good idea (in my books, that is) if it was designed to make itself obsolete. as in control the arms, start the education, when people are all grown up and friendly, self-destruct.

(that this concept isn’t even brought up, and that oh so perfect colossus doesn’t bring it up, either, well… it’s an obviously evil machine, damnit. can’t you see?! :P)

but otherwise, such a “world control” would be just as bad, or worse, than a nuclear war. I mean, even a nuclear war might be survivable, “world control” less so…

and love, and patience, and cooperation, and stuff. to me it’s not about the rate of consumption, I’d rather have people waste resources than a machine efficiently using them. which isn’t to say to can’t use or won’t have (we already do) “housekeeping AI”. but that’s different than leadership.

humanity isn’t going into one single direction though. that wasn’t even the case when fascism was thrashing around, or in the medieval church with their religious mindfuck.

unless everything was under “world control” of course. and that would increase the possibility for a real fuckup by orders of magnitude… I mean, why would such a thing not turn sour, insane, or be crappy to begin with? something that humans built, or even something that learns on its own? to me this speaks of a deep distrust of humanity, so that “anything else” is accepted, and I’m not convinced anything we devise to solve our problems for us, will not run into the same problems… and is misdirection or even war really that much worse than direct control? the ideal to me still is voluntary cooperation.

if humanity ended tomorrow, there would have been lots of people doing lots of great things.

if humanity gets lobomotized and lives on for a gazillion years, it basically ends right there (to me). and then it will STILL end, because even colossus can’t stop the heat death of the universe.

(which is by the way the reason I don’t fear real AI: a machine that knows at least as much as we do, will calculate that any behaviour will return in the same end result - all dead, no energy, nothing moves - and simply do nothing. you turn it on, and it does nothing, and THAT is how you see it’s really working and actually smarter than humans :lol:)

Man Johann, that is a lot of stuff to read. :)

I’m not sure I’ll be able to answer very quickly, but I will.

Okay I can reply.

The last 2 different guys that has set out to make a true A.I., and had probably the capacity to do so died. I read that in Wired, found it interesting too as more than likely it’s primary usage was or would have been weapons.

So really we don’t have anything to fear. As an actual World Control, even though I’m sure Google is trying they will more than likely fail, either we are not ready for it or it just isn’t permitted. :D

Which leads me to this.
Isaac Asimov, the last question.

If you haven’t read it, it’s a good read.

**acidentally moved a quote, threw everything off.

That’s a great story, but I think it’s weird that (generally speaking, I don’t mean you) people who would go nuts over the idea of God have no trouble with a machine as a, urrrr, deus ex machina…

Asimov wanted to believe in a God that was highly contradictory to the vengeful teachings of the period. Right now we are mainly seeing the cascade from that period, so it’s not that weird. People hoping for something better and doing something about it is natural. Interpretations of things constantly update.