I mean all the sequencers have their charasteristics in their soundengines, but to my ear, it sounds as if Renoise has a digital clipping inside it, that occurs more easily than in other software. This means that the upper and lower high end, and and the mid sounds get “punched” and distorted with a certain randomness.
Now in some cases this does not bother, but when making fat beats for example… it does.
Am I making something wrong, I mean the levels of the overall master out is not clipping, and it seems to me that this is similar to Waves plug-ins (easy internal) clipping - something that happens inside renoises Mixer.
I understand why this gets posted in the sample rate thread, but this seems like a pretty important issue.
OP: are your individual tracks clipping? I’ve had weird experiences with DAWs. Some, the peak level on a track might be +15dB, and as long as the master isn’t clipping, it’ll sound fine. Others, That track will be crushed to hell upon render.
Well, you feel analogue compressor also adding warmth to the sound… If there is something wrong within the internal processing of Renoise mixer, it should be adressed. As you might know, plug-ins and software can clip within themselves… And it seems like Renoise does this - in a similar way that for example a digital desk Yamahas 01V, or Waves plug-ins, or Cubase VST 5 (…back in the nineties / beginning of 2000…).
If you can hear it then you should be able to prove it. Please upload an .XRNS that clearly demonstrates the problem so that it can be tested. I want to be able to hear what you are hearing so that I can investigate it myself.
Well, you see, if you post a response like that… It is obvious that you are (mostly) after debunking the claim - which is most likely to result in a non willingness to provide evidence, since I do not wish to interfere with your predetermined beliefs.
That would seem like a waste of time - however, if someone was truly interested in hearing the thing, and open to the possibility that there indeed is an internal clipping, then it would be a whole other matter.
Personally I am not that much after using only Renoise to my composing, so that this is not a huge problem for me, to simply use a software that does not clip, and where such issues do not present themselves every now and then… Less hasle than providing evidence (and spend all my time beta testing Renoise) for people with obvious attitude towards the issue.
If I can help to clear things up a bit: There definitely is no internal clipping, unless you put an effect into the chain which does clip (compressor, limiter distortion FX and such). Clipping only happens as last step before the audio signals leave Renoise (to the sound card’s channels or to the audio files when rendering).
If there is some internal clipping happening, then this is a bug which simply must be fixed.
Please believe be: I’m only interested in trying to find the truth of what is happening here. I don’t have some kind of ridiculous hidden agenda where I’m trying to make you look stupid or anything like that - I honestly have far better things to do with my free time. All I’m trying to do is understand the problem that you’re experiencing, figure out why it’s happening, and then figure out a solution to stop it from happening.
If there is a bug in Renoise as you say there is, then this bug should be fixed. But we cannot fix bugs if people like you aren’t willing to back up your claims and provide simple evidence. If you can hear it, then you should be able to prove it to others. This is absolutely critical for making any kind of progress here.
Please, please, please provide an .XRNS that demonstrates the problem, otherwise it’s a complete waste of time even talking about it.
btw: I read dblue’s response/original request…it seemed quite fair to me.
u have to understand, not 1 person has produced an example backing up a claim like this(to my knowledge at least)
ppl are more than willing to post example for other issues, however, when it comes to these sample rate/clipping issue/claims they always elude the question, reveal they are on meds/or was high at the time(3x this has happened i think) or dissappear.
so u can undertstand it is actually eagerness to hear what u r talking about and thusly solve a potential problem!
Please don’t take it personally. No one is against you. I post the TWIX video in all threads like this many many times. It’s just a stupid MEME / sort of a metaphor for “disappearing evidence”, among others.
The one person who ever did an evidence based test, Simon V, concluded that Renoise was “Perfect when rendering”
The problem is that threads like this go on and on and on…
Maybe it’s in your mixer? Maybe it’s because your graphics card emits radio frequencies that affect onboard components? Maybe your WIFI is emitting frequencies that affect your speakers? These are all real things that have happened to me.
Everyone here wants to find this bug and get rid of it, but if no one can replicate it, then what do you expect? Some evidence, even if it leads to another bug or an unrelated problem, is the only way to go.
We have proved it the past (think 2.6) that Renoise’s summing engine is perfect way above what you are likely to ever go to in a song by using Gainers to get a sine wave up to +192dB in a track and then back to 0dB on the master before rendering. In most likelihood it’s an effect you’re using adding this sound. I know some people don’t like some of the Renoise DSPs due to their signature sound but it’s not caused by clipping in the signal path.
Aside from tracking music, try to track the steps and moves you make. Maybe that undo manager isn’t a bad idea when it comes down to some threads like these.
For example, I acidently used the 0C00 command recently, and noticed a volume difference. At first I thought it was a bug (it is hunting time after all), but then remembered I used the 0C00 command, so I did a quick forum search which led me to fix the perceived problem by reverting the track to 0CC0.
Okay, yeah sorry on my behalf - I was a bit tired while posting, and Taktiks post actually sums it all up.
This might benefit other users also, I did some testing, and there is definetely nothing wrong in Renoises internal processing, but it was due to a specific set of plug-ins that I have been using, when testing Renoise -> Softube EQ’s seem to have an internal clipping, which is what I mistook as being Renoises internal behaviour.
I did an A / B test on both Renoise and FL Studio, and used the same preset with the beat exported from Renoise: Both Sequencers clipped, so it is the output / clipping of the plug-in.
So the solution is there… That is the reason why I’ve been many times thinking there is something wrong in Renoise, which is good that is now cleared up. All is good.
I could have been more thorough (…in testing this out myself…) before blaming it as possible mishap in Renoise…