some questions about looping samples


(ffx) #1

Hi,

lately using renoise sampler in a more tonal way (mostly used it as drummachine only so far). This now leads me into some beginner’s questions:

  • If I select crossfade loop it successfully calculates in the transitions. But can I somehow control the lengths of the transition by myself? For example for long, evolving strings it could sound better to have a really long transition…

  • Can I somehow also calculate crossfade for an existing sample?

  • Is there an option to precisely auto-find null passings for proper, clickfree looping? I currently doing that manually.

  • What are the weapons of choice / tools for improving those workflows? I already forgot…

  • Is there a simple way to process a sample using renoise fx directly in the editor, without bouncing or something? And if so, can I process all samples at once?

  • just imagine for a second renoise could do crossfading live/on-the-fly, then you could use a separate sample tail for the release phase, too?

  • I am kind of stuck with the 3.1 filters in the sampler: Which one do not affect the sound at all at cutoff 100% and rez 0%? Also, what is the “general purpose 24dB” filter there? And 12dB?

  • Would love to have lp and hp fitler in serial, per note, is that possible?

Thanks for help!


(danoise) #2
  • If I select crossfade loop it successfully calculates in the transitions. But can I somehow control the lengths of the transition by myself? For example for long, evolving strings it could sound better to have a really long transition…

The crossfade is calculated from the total length of the sample, or the selection you’ve made (if any). Transition is roughly one third of that, if I recall correctly.

So for good results, it’s often better to work with a really long sample (longer than the xfaded sample).

  • Is there an option to precisely auto-find null passings for proper, clickfree looping? I currently doing that manually.

I guess you know about “snap to zerocrossing”. But even then, the problem is often that you can’t find a precise zero-crossing across both channels.
If this is really important, and xfade for some reason doesn’t do the job, then manual editing or splitting each channel into separate samples is the only way I can think of.

  • What are the weapons of choice / tools for improving those workflows? I already forgot…

One of the hidden gems: afta8 has created thistool with an alternative crossfade implementation :slight_smile:

  • Is there a simple way to process a sample using renoise fx directly in the editor, without bouncing or something? And if so, can I process all samples at once?

Sure, process FX is possible in the sample editor. Not batch capable, AFAIK.

  • I am kind of stuck with the 3.1 filters in the sampler: Which one do not affect the sound at all at cutoff 100% and rez 0%?

Not sure which one is the most neutral. It also depends on the character you’re looking for when the filtering actually kicks in?

  • Would love to have lp and hp fitler in serial, per note, is that possible?

Currently, only a single filter can be used in modulation. It’s a good point, though.

I usually manage by adding some EQ or filter in the FX section to contain sharp frequencies.


(ffx) #3

Hey, many thanks!

Not sure which one is the most neutral. It also depends on the character you’re looking for when the filtering actually kicks in?

am looking for bread’n’butter filters, simply. Let’s call it “workstation common filters”. AFAIK kind of quite neutral, and available in 12dB + 24dB in all variants LP/BP/NOTCH/HP. Ah, and lot of workstations also provide a smooth crossfade between filter types, so the filter type is a knob, and not a switch.

Btw. can we haz ALL those filters from analog/digital filter dsp inside the sampler, please?

I cannot find those in the sampler:

  • “Biquad” (seems to me the most attractive one in my scenario)

  • “2Pole Moog”

  • “24dB BP Moog” (I assume the current is 12dB?)

  • “butter/cheb”

You could sort those filters in a 2-way popup menu, like sorting by raw type first, like “BP->”, “LP->”.

Sure,process FXis possible in the sample editor. Not batch capable, AFAIK.

Hm, ok but I am looking for a dsp’s parameter change over time, so a graph inside the sample. Ok, can also use a sample editor. Mmmh, maybe you could integrate a “custom/external editor”, so it was possible to DIRECTLY edit the used sample data? I think of kind of filesystem change event watching, so as soon as you save the sample in an external editor, Renoise updates its sample view from changed file. This would avoid those export/import actions. LOL.

Do you plan to update the sampler’s capabilities sooner or later or should I better start to use a common sampler vst? Just would like to know this without any convincing here. And of course I would love to do this in pure Renoise way.


(Djeroek) #4
  • Is there a simple way to process a sample using renoise fx directly in the editor, without bouncing or something? And if so, can I process all samples at once?

Not batch processing vst/native fx, but depending on what you want to do, there is a tool which can batch process all samples in an instrument…for example change sample/bit rate , auto-normalize etc using Sox;

https://forum.renoise.com/t/new-tool-3-0-dbatchprocess/42213


(ffx) #5

Thanks for the hint!


(Zer0 Fly) #6

Ah, you start trying to use renoise for what trackers are intended for!

The standard loop xfade option in renoise just frankly - sucks big time, I still failed to be able to use it in any productive or controllable ways. Just like the broken shit that came with fast tracker 2. I’m thinking about trying to make a tool to xfade the selection around an existing loop marker with equal power slopes to the corresponding portion of the other loop marker - this would be what I would suppose proper loop xfading to work like.

Most of the time I loop without xfade. Most natural loops I find I’m able to create by observing the waveform and also listening to it. If it is somehow “cycling” and hits 2 very similar states (from the visual shape of the waveform, and the way it sounds), these are the places to put the forward loop markers on. Check the snap to zero x-ing option, and put the markers into a crossing that looks the most similar around for both places.

The above visual technique would also bring sweet spot places for “proper” loop xfading, you could loop samples into cyclic timbre changes that don’t cycle before xfading, but just are in “smilar” shapes and thus timbre around the loop points.

For looping single or very few cycles, you have to watch the values around the zero crossings. Those can well be “off” by some percentage (i.e. plus minus one sample by the mean of the whole waveform), and lead to slight tuning issues or introduce (very weak) buzzing into the sound.


(ffx) #7

Yes, please, make that tool!


(Zer0 Fly) #8

Please be patient - it will take some time. I’m just moving & furnishing an aptmnt (yeah, guess who got paranoid by the mbc theme), and when my workstation is set up, my todo list of tools to try to write will get me going for a while. It covers quite some ideas besides the loop xfade (also “calctools” for which I’ve seen need in another thread by u, like calculating between “note/frequency” or “decibel/gain factor”, thanks for the inspiration of enabling a window to show vice/versa for selected parameters).