Suggestion: Automate-able Sample Looping points (Start/End)

[Ghost_Train (tinnitus)]

Something Ive wanted to control over for a long time is sample Looping points via automation.

I am pretty certain some artists like Aphex Twin were doing this in the 90s using whatever crazy tools he had. Most samplers let you change the Sample Start, Loop Start and end points, but those parameters are not exposed for automation/control over time. The first one ive seen that lets us do this Amigo by PotenzaDSP, and Im not even sure it was intentional at first. It would be awesome if Renoise could exposed Sample Start, Loop Start point, Loop End point and Sample End points to Automation. Or make a way for us to bind them to Macros.

This allows for some very interesting results over time that we can’t quite do with the usual tracker setup, nor most other DAWs as far as I know. Its just kind of hilarious, I don’t think most people realize we can finally do this using Amigo, or the potential of it and its awesome. Please bring this to Renoise too so we can do it using the built-in sampler as well with all of its tracker features

[edit]:
To add to this, I can see that it could pose an issue when it comes to using many slice markers, but if even with Amigo, this really shines when using individual drums/samples, not full breaks with slice markers. So i could see there being some limitations to this.

[Neuro_No_Neuro]

The most accurate things we have for that are these two Tools:

The one I like the most:

New Tool (3.0): Loop Control

Yo, Renoise crew, here’s a tool that lets you do sample loop point automation [image] 4939 [Screenshot 2014-04-21 20.27.59.png] It works by creating a doofer that is tied to the loop points of the selected sample. This can be done to multiple samples across multiple instruments. The loop control doofers are contained in a dedicated FX chain within each instrument and numbered according to the sample index. Usage: To create a loop control doofer, select ‘Add Loop Control’ from the sample list…

Another really good one with more control:

Loop Marker Automation | Renoise

Another one with insane control:
https://ulneiz.es/renoise-tools/sample-multi-controller/

[Ghost_Train (tinnitus)]

excellent. thanks for pointing that out.

I would still love to see this integrated as a native feature

[Neuro_No_Neuro]

@Ghost_Train Oh, me too - I keep asking for stuff like this. The “Loop Control” is so close to being one ‘grain’ of a rudimentary type of granular synthesis. Give us something like 10-12 of them to run sound through, and it would be close to the Sakonda method of granular. Just beautiful glitchiness and some really gorgeous ambient if worked properly. I can almost do this - if it were just a plain Doofer, we could make one in the effects section by making a bunch of sends and just routing it. No dice.

@taktik I don’t know if there’s a method to convert the code from the delays into a ‘sampler’ or ‘loop’ recorder (instead of a delay), but if even those could be converted to something like that, we’d have another way to make it by chaining them. I already tried with the delays, and it just comes out sounding like a bunch of delays - too spacey/echo-y, not a loop.

The problem with the term ‘granular’ nowadays seems to be everybody just ‘needs’ 100+ grains. I find it disappointing that it’s primarily used in the cloud method, instead of all the other ways it could be used. It’s almost become a guitar effect staple, and it’s almost always paired with delay and reverb - as if soggy ambient is its only purpose.

[Jek]

The tools are great for this.

There is a Native way to do it; the same way it was done in FT2.
Multiple instances of same instrument but with different loop definitions; change instrument number.

[Neuro_No_Neuro]

Sure would be nice to just be able to make a way to link to the start and end points with an LFO easily, though - Imagine just being able to make a Doofer or something to do that? Pretty neat, no? Possibly less processing power as well.

[Jek]

Yes, upgrading some of these tools into devices would certainly be a fantastic improvement!

Perhaps interesting; the loop points are a function of the .wav specification and are stored
in the .wav file itself.

There really is little issue with the old FT2 way of PWM, Wavetables, and Granular via Inst #
changes latency wise though, from what ive seen over the years.

[slujr (•MrZensphere•)]

@Jek

There is a Native way to do it;

You can do it with phrases, too. And set a macro to choose the phrase number. There will be an xrni that does this in the next release

[xrxs]

Yeah these tools made me realize that this feature is kinda overrated, actually. Only few sweet spots are musical. If you want this feature use pd/max whatever

[Neuro_No_Neuro]

Sure, that’s the easy answer. If I wanted to make generative music, I would use PD/MaxMSP I happen to LOVE Renoise’s precise sequencing, but I also desire built in granular. Such a conundrum!

[Ghost_Train (tinnitus)]

Would 100% disagree (If im understanding right) with this being overrated. Like anything it depends on the user to use it creatively. If it’s not something you feel inspired to use that’s all good, but it doesn’t reflect on the tool itself necessarily. Using these tools is still a little limited compared to using Amigo for it, but if it were integrated as native it was be better than all the above. Its probably not going to do anything special for anyone who doesn’t see value in it. Either way, more options, less limitation.

Also…what is pd/max?

[Neuro_No_Neuro]

Pure Data / MaxMSP - visual programming languages for esoteric music. Basically where granular is primarily from, computer-wise. Also, Supercollider is part of that category.