Suggestion: Relative Cc Value Changes

I’d really like it if CC values (specifically the Pitchwheel) could be controlled in the same way as a Pitch Slide Up and Pitch Slide Down work (using the MIDI Control). This would also allow for some really smooth and highly controlled filter modulations, etc.

So for example:

000 | C-500.. ---- |  
001 | --- .. 1010 |  
002 | --- .. 1010 |  
003 | --- .. 1010 |  
004 | --- .. 1010 |   

would have the same effect as this with a sample:

000 | C-500.. 0110 |  
001 | --- .. 0110 |  
002 | --- .. 0110 |  
003 | --- .. 0110 |  
004 | --- .. 0110 |   

Anyone else agree?

yes, this has been suggested in the past, would be useful. the only problem is that it is less foolproof because the CC values do not reset at new note linke instead it is with most most of standard tracker commands

Indeed. But we can of course make them do that with a set of rules.
For instance all note-offs will reset CC to a set value etc.
This will hack midi into behaving more like standard tracker commands.
Definitively something we should think of when we redo the xrni structure.

Using the insturment evenlopes with MIDI CCs for MIDI/VST instrument could be one idea ?

Controlling VST params with instrument ENVs would be incredibly useful. Of course, relativistic parameter automation is also something that I’ve been hoping to see.

Can we have both? :D


This is a great idea, and I hope it will be implemented (I bet it will), and I think I may have a compromise between this idea and my original idea: an effect command that ramps up/down to a CC value at a specified rate.

000 | C-500.. ---- |  
001 | --- C1 20A4 |   
002 | --- .. ---- |  
003 | --- .. ---- |  
004 | --- .. ---- |   
005 | D-500.. ---- |  
Where C1=Ramp command (on CC1)  
 xx=amount above/below current value  
 yy=length of time to decay back to original value.  

This is just off the top of my head, but it’d be more useful to be able to instantiate little ramps rather than having to edit individual ADSRs for this kind of detail-oriented work where you’re not necessarily going to be using the same envelope every time.

If we would have some kind of scripting tool for it, possibilities open up pretty wide…

Yeah. That would be cool. In general I think the Instrument Envelopes should become a separate device you can use both in instruments and on tracks. So you can add anything to the Envelope Device.
We could also have a absolute/relative switch on this and similar devices. So you can then for instance add several Envelope Devices in series.

But this i a different thing really.
Regarding the commands we could in the structure of the xrni be able to attach sliders to common relative tracker commands.
So if you type for instance 0110 command it will not only pitchslide samples up. But also whatever you have added to this command in the instrument it self (like a CC in this case).
You could just as well add a Hydra to your xrni and control many parameters with the 01xx command etc…

We could easily build templates for many known vsti’s as well this way. Making the difference between vsti and internal sampler some less.

Uhm no, I must have had a small blackout. MIDI CCs only apply per channel, not per individual note, so if you would hold down a chords key slowly one after each other, you would get one big mess.
If that would work, we would have used Volume CCs, PitchBend and so on for this as it is now…

What you can do now is using a one shot LFO together with a Velocity device and MIDI CC device to emulate exactly this behavior (an MIDI CC envelope triggerd by any note).

Now imagine that the instrument it self have tracks with dsp chains. Then you simply but that device chain into the instrument.
Then imagine you have several track inside the instrument. You can add/dedicate one instance of the vsti to each track. And the device chain.
All you need then is a function to toggle a new note to a new track to get true polyphony.
Cpu/memory intensive? Who cares… a hell of a lot fun :) And this is just as useful without vsti.
This structure is like analog poly-synths btw.

Even if you don’t have the CCs reset automatically, relative CC changes would still be useful (you could always reset the CC value with the 10yy command anyway).

I think that both the sample-based and the MIDI pitch shifting commands should be unifed into a single command, and renoise figures out what to send based on what instrument it is?

Right now Renoise lets us load a sample and a VSTi into the same slot. I don’t often find myself taking advantage of this, but I imagine that an implementation of what you are talking about would be rather irritating to those who do.

Relative pitchbend for VST instruments would be nice, though.