The option to load vsts from the same location as the xrns file

OK, I’ve been thinking about the future. Specifically, the future 20 years from now where we lost our vst files and can no longer download or buy the vst’s that we once used for our songs. What happens then? We have broken songs in the future.

So I had an idea that would serve 3 benefits.

The idea:

Having an option inside Renoise to allow you to scan for vst’s inside the location of the xrns file. For me personally, I keep a seperate folder for each song, so I can store samples, different saved copies of the xrns, etc. Wouldn’t it be perfect to also have the option of storing the vst files there and have them automatically be loaded?

The benefits:

  1. Future proofing. This is the most important thing. I want to be able to load my songs in the future and still be able to play them and/or edit them (I figure for remasters primarily). Trying to keep track of vst installers, versions, etc, is like a nightmare when you’re talking about dozens or hundreds of songs over the years.

  2. Different versions of the same vst. Let’s say you wrote a song with vst xyz in 2010, and vst xyz was at version 1.0. You write another song in 2014 and you want to use vst xyz, but it is now at version 2.0. The versions are not compatible with each other and/or sound different, and you don’t want to have to figure out how to install them both alongside each other (is that even possible?). So it would make sense to have the relevant version along with the xrns file. We are already coming across this problem in SDC with trying to find the correct version of vsti’s that were used in older rounds, in order to make sure the songs are rendered properly.

  3. Song portability. Oh yeah. It’ll be more like the old mod/s3m/xm/it days, where everything was in one file. Easier to distribute your song if your friend doesn’t already have the vst installed. It would be even cooler if there was a way to roll the vst inside of the xrns, therefore having a meta xrns which contained everything. A true module file once again :slight_smile: Or… If not that, then be able to include the xrns and vst dlls inside of a rar file, and Renoise loads the rar ??? :slight_smile:

The negatives:

  1. OK, I realize this would not work for copyrighted vsts, for ethical and copyright protection reasons both. This is why the feature would be optional and not required.

  2. Large vst’s would either take up a lot of duplicated space (Again, why this should be an option and not mandatory), or a unique challenge because they have data stored in another location on your harddrive. Solution to this part in number 2 below

  3. I thought I have another negative but I can’t remember it now…


  1. Would it be possible for the xrns itself to have a tag that says “Yes, load the vsts included with me”, that way the process would be self contained and you would not even have to select it inside the Renoise preferences?

  2. As I said in my digital decay thread, large vsts which have data stored at an alternate location on your harddrive are a different challenge.
    But my solution to that is:

It should be possible to make a symbolic link dll that you store in your xrns folder, which points to the real dll. Whenever it is time to backup your song data to DVD, cloud, whatever, or if you are about to uninstall the vst or reinstall Windows or something, it should be possible to automatically “roll” the entire vst package back into the xrns folder, that way it would remain portable.

I don’t know if Renoise would do this rolling process, or if it would be a third party program. (Yet again something else to backup, lol)

Again I realize this would not work for copyrighted vst’s

  1. I’m sorry if somebody else has suggested this before, I’m not really sure :\

  2. Stop me before I get too crazy, if I don’t stop this train of thought soon I’ll probably start suggesting that Renoise itself be rolled inside the xrns file. Well, it could be an option right, like a self playing exe/editor, OK I’ve gone off the deep end officially. :badteeth:

Heyorganic io,

most components or vsts expect a proper installation to the standard dirs, on OSX and also on Windows. Besides this the main reason why a old VST will not work is not the DAW, but the OS updates. e.g. Windows Vista introduced access rights for registry hives, which broke a lot of old software (you need to start the daw with admin rights).

On the other side, you can run a virtual environments like Wine that still behave like Windows XP. This is what I do to run very old projects in Cubase.

But then I realized, maybe I shouldn’t so much stick with these old sound generators. Very often the sound is better if I quickly reedit the sound with a modern VST - in most case it will sound better then, because 1. my skills heavily improved over time, 2. the modern generator simply sounds better, has things like alias-free oscillators, mono capability etc. Imo this also applies of the composition: Instead of sticking with the old version, I could just do a remix which will sound better for sure.

If your projects were lost and forgotten in past, there is maybe a reason for it. E.g. I have hundreds of old started projects, but only a little bunch will fulfill my today’s demands of quality.

Most vst upgrades support import of preset from the ancient versions. So you can install Wine, export from ancient version and import to the recent version.