I’ll change “Focus Pattern Editor” to Shift+Esc and there - I have a toggle shortcut
But why is there not a GLOBAL one like there is for every other pane, like the DSPs, Mixer, Automation, Disk Op etc etc etc? How does this help if you’re using Matrix alongside Mixer?
Old way was better. Way better.
I don’t like that option either, but i’m getting slowly used to use alt-left click right now (which also works on the pattern matrix).
couldn’t find who posted it before, but after making a couple of songs in the new 2.7b i strongly feel for the option to allow double-clicking in the pattern matrix to set focus there. its the shortest way (at least for a mouse-oriented user - for keyboard-oriented, i suppose the shortcut-keys work pretty well)
thinking of this, would it not be just as reasonable to expand the double-click-thing to setting focus in any part (except for the parts that get focus with a single click currently, like the pattern editor - not sure if there are others)?
Good point there. If we decide not to give “special treatment” to the pattern matrix, this could be viewed as inconsistent. IMO the pattern matrix should be working with the exact same focus mechanics as the rest of the interface. This way, we won’t be left with a mess, once the Renoise interface becomes more modular. But this is of course what this whole discussion is about?
My personal wish would be that the matrix adopted more shortcuts than what we’ve already got. So, for example you could select some matrix slots and hit the “transpose” shortcut, just like you would in the pattern editor. The pattern editor has a bunch of shortcuts : block/column/track/pattern “operations” - so I’m basically proposing that the matrix blocks get it’s own category where we add all the relevant operations like humanize, quantize, transpose etc., which would then work on the selected blocks
This “special treatment” will never end. We’ll have to add more and more pattern matrix shortcuts to the pattern matrix, and this never solves the real problem. The problem of the old behavior was that it focused the matrix when you didn’t wanted it to be focused. The new behavior’s problem is that it’s not focusing when you want it to.
Either way, the main confusion is that its not obvious THAT and where the focus is. And why there is such a focus at all. Probably we should put a bit more work into a better visualization of this “where the focus is”, to make this clear.
Summa summarum it seems that more people have more problems with the new behavior than with the old one. We got tons of bug reports for this already, which means it feels wrong, like a mistake, a malfunction for many. So I think we should revert the behavior to how it was.
But before we do so, I’d like to try one more thing - one last attempt before giving up:
- let middle click switch focus as well in the matrix (and do not mute slots when switching focus)
- slightly better visualization of the focus (maybe slowly pulsing focus corners will help - have to experiment a bit)
- new icon to set focus to the matrix with a single click, and acting like a big “help” button with a detailed tooltip, describing what’s happening
Not sure if this really solves the problem, but I think it’s worth a try.
I was wondering why can’t we just have single click focus between matrix and pattern editor? Where you left clicked last that view gets the focus.
(On second thought) reverting to left-click sounds reasonable enough. After all, the focus locking is not limited to the pattern editor, it’s everything that is contained in the middle panel (mixer, sample editor etc.) that has automatic focus when “Lock Keyboard Focus” is enabled.
I was thinking about a possible future Renoise interface where you could have a “standalone matrix”, not necessarily located in the middle panel. But this is perhaps something best dealt with, once we get to that point
There is. This was annoying me too so I added it for 2.6. Unfortunately it gets added to the end of the list so you might not have spotted it.
It’s under Global > View > Focus/Show Pattern Matrix.
For what it’s worth, the focus stealing between matrix and editor made me switch to unlocked mode and I still prefer it. Only thing I think we should change is to make Esc always go into record mode, regardless of where your keyboard focus is. Unlocked really ain’t so bad.
That is precisely the old method isn’t it?
Apologies then. Barely got a chance to touch 2.6, had requested it many times and never got a confirmation it was going to be added so though it may of been skipped. When I made that post I still had no hard drive and thus no Renoise to actually check. Thank you very much for doing it
Under the old regime I was often led to believe that the pattern editor was in focus when it in fact was not. Most likely this was because it was possible (and indeed still is) to scroll up and down using the mouse wheel, and so on. When I’d press up or down on the keypad to insert a note I would suddenly find that the pattern matrix was in focus and I’d be jumping up and down through the song, cursing like a madman. This is the problem everybody had with the old way, I know. Would it be possible to have “where any kind of mouse action takes place is the focus”? Even if it is just scrolling?
In any case, the old way was better. So I vote to revert.
Of course, getting rid of that strange anomaly called “Lock Keyboard Focus” would completely eliminate all of these issues.
well, i did have a small idea about selective focus, but am not sure whether it would overly complicate things. the idea is that you choose which GUI-items get locked for focus, and which aren’t. the original thread is here.
I think you had to double click to get focus back to pattern editor. Also some dimming would help if the user is out of the pattern editor.
I’ve been one who has complained about the inconsistency in the past… It’s true when you’d click from one area to another sometimes focus would switch to the area you click in, some areas do not. hence the term “focus stealing”. I was complaining from the other side however that renoise didn’t give focus when I was expecting it should. . . ie clicking in the instrument area (top right), selecting an instrument, hitting ctrl r to rename and nothing would happen - oh yeah because i have to “give” focus to the window. I never understood the point. . I always thought that if I click in the area, focus should be given.
Overall I am a strong believer that whatever is done - do it consistently . just because lots of people switch often between the pattern editor and the matrix doesn’t mean it should be given inconsistent treatment in terms of how focus is given to the two areas.
having just downloaded the beta 7 it seems the solution w/ default prefs and no kb/mouse combos has been to go for double click to set focus between the pattern editor and matrix editor.
but then single clicking from the matrix to the pattern area sets focus back to the pattern editor?
…then single click instrument area - nothing… double click instrument - nothing. … hmm… i go digging for prefs and see nothing where I would expect to see it in GUI
I get the alt-click to set focus, that’s cool.
Then I find View>Lock keyboard focus, disable it - and I am happier than I’ve ever been with Renoise’s UI interaction
I skimmed some opinions here, but I guess I don’t understand - why is this not the default? Why wouldn’t a user want focus given to the area they’ve last clicked in?
Beats me man. I honesly don’t get it either. Now, when I’m ‘focussed’ on the matrix, the esc button doesn’t work anymore to arm the record button… what the… This update messes a lót with my workflow (not just this, the sample editor, sample keyzone thing, mweh)
It never has done! It has always taken you into the Pattern Editor for some strange reason. Esc for Edit Mode should be Global!