This bugs the shit out of me.On occasion after layering and constructing a break with nice compression and brick wall limiting and then using the break in the pattern editor renoise will spike the transients up in some of the hits of the break.This is very strange as the break itself does not have any transient spikes and has been brick wall limited.If i render that same break when it has been spiking in the pattern editor sure enough transient spikes have been added to the waveform.This usually happens on hits that have been layered.Some things to note,the breaks i use are usually brickwall limited and show a smoothed out waveform with no obvious transient spikes,when previewed or played outside the pattern editor the dynamics play as they should,the breaks are layered first then resampled so only one sample is used in the pattern editor(no layered hits sitting on top of the break)More often than not the spikes occur on layered kicks but not always,the spikes themselves are quite big around 3db+,most often the very first kick of the break does not contain a spike but some others do.Again the breaks do not have any sounds layered on them because they are always resampled before i use them so its not that.Also there is NO effects on track or master track or in the instrument editor,they are not being sent anywhere they are just playing back incorrectly.
Please upload an example XRNS that clearly demonstrates the problem. Only then can we really begin to examine what might be happening.
will upload in an hour or so,will pm
Is it the same for you?
Is it the same for you?
Yeah, it’s happening here, too. It’s caused by the volume ramping which occurs when notes are cut off.
If a note interrupts another playing note with NNA on “note cut”, or you kill it with a note off and there’s no volume modulation to apply, or you stop it by setting its volume directly to 00, etc… it doesn’t just instantly cut to complete silence, because that would sound like crap in the vast majority of cases. So there’s still a tiny amount of volume ramping that’s applied to quickly fade out the cut to silence.
In this particular situation with your breakbeat sample, you’re triggering the loop, then triggering it again and interrupting the previous note, causing the NNA to kick in and apply the volume ramping. The cut happens immediately before the next drum hit in the loop would play, and the ramping down of the first note causes a tiny fraction of that next drum hit to be heard and overlap in the mix, resulting in the brief transient spike.
Anyway… Bit of a weird and technical situation, for sure.
I’ve PM’ed you a “fixed” version which uses some carefully place slice markers instead. They were placed so that each chunk of the loop only plays for precisely as long as it needs to without overlapping the other notes, with each slice ending cleanly as close to the zero crossing mark as possible.
This should take care of any transient spikes clashing, at least in the basic example pattern you created. You may of course have to tweak it further, or simply chop up your loop into smaller chunks and re-sequence them for more precise results.
Ok yeah i understand.Next question is,i dont remember this happening to me before 3.1,when was this ramping enabled?
Wheres he gone?
when was this ramping enabled?
The ramping has been in there pretty much forever, so I guess you just haven’t really noticed it before.
Renoise 1.5 is the oldest version I currently have installed, and it happens there, too.
If it’s really bugging the shit out of you, then you have various ways to work around it: You could chop your break into multiple different samples that begin and end precisely where you want, thus avoiding the ramping altogether; you could use slice markers to non-destructively achieve the same result as chopping up the sample, as I’ve mentioned above; or you can simply throw another basic limiter on the track itself, to keep the transients below the desired threshold.
Edit: Another simpler workaround that I hadn’t considered earlier: Insert a note off just before you trigger the breakbeat sample again, but use the delay column to shift the note off almost fully to the end of the pattern line — a delay value of F0 seems to work nicely on your particular example. You still get the ramping, but you’re forcing it to trigger just a fraction of a line earlier, so the next transient spike is not heard during the ramping.
Yeah the reason why it annoys me is because of the way i work,i do use slice markers and all the rest but its usually on a different track to the loops track,its the combination of the two that i work best with and the limiter is an obvious tool to get rid of it but these days i like to have my tracks with absolutely no effects on them at all,its just a really good way of working and i like the total control of the dynamics that it gives me.
“Edit: Another simpler workaround that I hadn’t considered earlier: Insert a note off just before you trigger the breakbeat sample again, but use the delay column to shift the note off almost fully to the end of the pattern line — a delay value of F0 seems to work nicely on your particular example. You still get the ramping, but you’re forcing it to trigger just a fraction of a line earlier, so the next transient spike is not heard during the ramping”
Never thought of that,i guess i can live with a delay line on the loops channel,cheers!