Upcoming macos 26 tahoe is a complete mess

Off-Topic
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I think you can say that it is now official: Apple is messing up macos by purpose. The new glass look thing and the icons strongly reminds me of Windows Vista or Aero, and does not look professional at all. They do not add useful stuff anymore, instead they add only useless bloatware. Also it messes up resources with a ton a AI services runnning in the background all the time, for very questionable nonsense features. I am kind of shocked that you are now locked into a crappy looking bloated eco system.

I hope someone will force Apple to publish driver information about their chips so it is possible to 100% run a Linux on it.

Even worse is the naming of the OSes, with year numbers. So they made it official here, too: Instead releasing a new version when there are actually new features added which are useful for the users, they follow money maximisation needs instead, publishing a stupid bloatweare update every year, so investors are happy. I imagine that working as coder at Apple is a nightmare job (except good payment maybe). Constant time pressure, adding useless stuff mostly. Not tested really.

Two groups of people do not count at all anymore for Apple:

  • So called ā€œcustomersā€
  • The actual developers who do the main work

What do you think about the new macos?

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iā€™m still waiting for iPhone Mirroring to work over here in Finland, EU-town.

the supercharged Spotlight (which directly competes against Alfred and Raycast, now) i canā€™t wait to try out.

i feel like WWDC as a whole had a bunch of really cool features, am i don't care about the liquid glass design. the new features matter and some of which are real neat.

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Although I feel for you, as a non Mac user I think all of this is awesome :slight_smile: . I hope this time they fuck it up so much, @taktik will drop all Mac support for renoise!

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@Jonas we know that @ffx is the most vocal (apart from that one flake elsewhere) about macOS issues.

letā€™s not tempt Taktik, please. having Renoise work on macOS, Windows AND Linux is magical.

what really kills me personally is that macOS26 Tahoe is dropping FireWire-support. and i donā€™t know what that means! I have USB-C ā†’ Thunderbolt ā†’ FireWire adapter that works perfectly on macOS Sequoia - so I donā€™t know if i can upgrade. i mean, i donā€™t want to use USB, i donā€™t know why, it just feels like i preferFireWire.

maybe theyā€™ll introduce it on a future beta, thereā€™s still time.

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Mh, I think you got me wrong :wink: I really like macos, I think Windows is a much bigger mess. So it hurts that macos turns into WIndows. I think macos is technically much more solid, so Windows support should be dropped by Taktik instead, makes much more sense.

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nah, if you look at how mac os updates have seemingly influenced workload for renoise (just looking at this forum) compared to windows I beg to differ. Continual graphical issues because mac keep changing things every update, something about devs needing to pay for their apps to be trusted etc et cetera. I sincerely belief mac issues have slowed renoise development down as taktik spends more time bug fixing then being able to do cool stuff.

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i dunno about you but 3.5.0 is pretty pretty pretty good.

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I can run still run my beloved 32bit plugin " Sq8l" , nord modular modulator editor (year 2000) on a modern windows machine .
Try that on mac !
(ps I do have an ipad and iphone )

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Yes, Windows compatibility is off the charts, as Windows 95 software is still available.

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Exactly. Recently I was running 27 years old Cylonix on my modern machine. Thereā€™s no question Windows is superior over Mac in any case, especially when it comes to creative work like music or graphic. Apple sucks, 50% of all issues that people are reporting in this forum is only because theyā€™re using Apple.

Guessā€¦ :wink:

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I actually observed the opposite. While the macos Renoise version is very stable, efficient and bugfree, it is the Windows build which constantly causes headache, be it gui size issues, driver issues, or just Windows accidently wiping ssds. Obviously Windows came to an end. It also gets slower and slower and is not suitable for professional work anymore.

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Windows user here, and I would also agree that the quality control of Windows is a total mess, especially the recent update breaking text input of my language, and a bunch visual bugs and UX inconsistencies letting me question about Microsoftā€™s coding practice, but at least, it has good backward compatibility in a way that it is still possible to use some ancient software, and Microsoft is more open toward adopting open standard like OpenGL and Vulkan, making the gaming industry bloom on the platform.

Apple is doing the opposite by keep making breaking update for each major OS version. Last year, I was still a master student, and I have seen countless students who use Macbook having problems on even compiling their own coding project after an OS update; besides, it is quite common to see a bunch complaining on KVR forum about their music making software breaks after updated their laptop. Furthermore, I just donā€™t really understand why Apple have to be so stubborn on open standard, especially the rejection of Vulkan and OpenGL which is a big middle finger to the developers; otherwise, we wouldnā€™t need all those cross platform graphical libraries just to compile different shaders in the first place, and we can just use Vulkan for all three platforms.

I used to think to get a Macbook because itā€™s linux like environment and good support to art applications, but the problems above are really massive turn offs for developers. Unless, if someone who write cross platform software in Mac could provide another perspective that can change my mind.

Edit 1: Okay, after I have taken a research on the lack of support of Vulkan in MacOS, it turns out my answer was not complete. I have been thinking that it was impossible to build Vulkan Application on Apple, but seems like MoltenVK existed and it open up a possibility to run Vulkan application on top of Metal. Thus, workarounds exists, but it is just not official supported by Apple.

It is getting slower because it is getting more junk from the OS and in the App data temp folder, and this requires people regularly clearing their machine. After an year, for some crazy reasons, my vscode stored ~100GB of temp in my app data folder, and I have to manually clear those files to free up space for more useful tasks. I also have disable and remove useless features like Copilot and Dolby Atmos (Actually destroy my mix), and disable most of the tracking features I could do, to free up some wasted ram and resources. Nevertheless, it is still my daily machines for my professional work, but I would agree that is not something a non-tech users would do normally.

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You are right, Windows clearly has advantages, one of it is the backwards compatibility. And yes, Apple does really stupid very egocentric compatibility decisions, regularly messing with all the ecosystem developers. The discussion here was more meant as a joke. I only see Windows and macOS quite similar now very critical, because the whole OSes now use tons of RAM, starting 400+ system services, from which most you do not need for running an OS. The direction where this leads to can be only a complete desaster. These OSes donā€™t even run anymore on small, ressource saving machines, and are actually one of the reasons for the planet being destroyed even fasterā€¦

Since I was a happy macOS user over 15 years, this hurts me quite a lot. At some point, I guess I will have to leave these systems and join Linux. But then you have to rebuild the whole system, replace a lot of apps, and then all the pluginsā€¦

I would be much more happy, if these OSes would provide basic OS functionality (but this in a very good way), and all the comfort and subjective features would be additionally installed. For example, I donā€™t need a crappy implemented AI inside my OS neither in Windows, nor in macOS. It is not a good idea to make the OS index all the files on drive for making it available for the AI, even without asking. The whole AI crap inside the OSes does not belong there. In macOS, it comes with 40+ new system services running all the time, which extremely use CPU and memory ressources all the timeā€¦ It will be very similar on Windows. AI can be considered in early alpha phase.

Why Apple didnā€™t instead improve whatā€™s already there? It would be easy to improve the Finder file windows for example. Same for Microsoft. Nowadays they only adding new layers of junk with each stupid release, like braindead business zombies, not even dare to improve the core functionality, because thatā€™s real development and is difficult. And with each newly added layer of shit, they digged the OSes grave a bit more, making it even more impossible to improve core functionality, since there are thousands of dependencies now which nobody can understand or even test. Which each layer of junk, naturally the OS quality will be lowered. Until a point when these OSes start to be unusable. For me Windows already reached that state. When I run it on a small notebook, it will be mostly be busy updating and managing itself, blocking harddrive constantly and filling up memoryā€¦ macOS now also is very near that situation, too. But in Apple world, you then are forced to throw away your old Mac to again run their messed up OS again on a much faster machine in the same way.

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Who could have guessed that a forced yearly update cycle would end up being a complete messā€¦

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This is why I have never gone beyond 10.14 btw. From Catalina onwards itā€™s been an utter shit show. Even 10.14 is a mess in some ways and still has bugs that have been in the OS for years. The last good update was probably 10.11.

For people who arenā€™t terminally online thereā€™s very little reason to update other than being forced to by misguided software devs who say ā€˜Apple donā€™t support that version any more so we have to move onā€™, which is noting beyond saying that adding support for new OS features without breaking backwards compatibility is too much work for them to be bothered with (so fuck you just update your entire machine to use my program now).

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iā€™m curious by default, and i wanna know. how would you improve the Finder file window? please donā€™t reply ā€œby improving itā€ - surely you have specific usecases in mind. iā€™d be interested in hearing them :+1:

and iā€™m not saying ā€œfinder is perfect change nothingā€ - no app is perfect.

whenever people say ā€œxxx is perfect change nothingā€ i think, oh geez you really donā€™t like thinking, do you?..

but yeah, i mean, iā€™d love to hear if your Finder painpoints are similar to my Finder painpoints.

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Ah my bad. I did kinda notice one of your previous comments was a joke, but I thought everything resume back to the usual discussion beyond that point.

I guess I will have to leave these systems and join Linux.

Linux is really nice for most of the tasks since I have gotten Mint to my desktop before, and I love the experience since there are simply no bloat like all those copilot non-sense (I do use Copilot for research sometimes, but I just use the web version, so I found the embed version pointless and waste of space.), and I do enjoy to use bash much more than cmd where bash syntax makes more logical sense. However, there are two major issues ending up switching back to windows.

The first issues is Native Instruments since it is nearly impossible to install Native Access II on Linux, while they have no plan for making a native app for linux. Unless there is another competitor creating their sampler supported in Linux, there are not much way to write orchestral stuff in Linux. Another issues is that not all computer works where my current zenbook is known as having some sound driver issues after waken up.

If these two problems are addressed or have alternative solutions, some of the well-known Linux Distros are really nice to use, and I would definitely going back to mint.

Why Apple didnā€™t instead improve whatā€™s already there?
Nowadays they only adding new layers of junk with each stupid release, like braindead business zombies
ā€¦

Unfortunately, most of the people just want to see new shiny things, especially the investors, but they never understand the deeper aspect of what software development really are, but demand the devs to bring out more features and chase the hype in a rush, rather than caring how to adopt iso9001 to ensure the quality of the software or application.

This is not just about OSes, but many other applications and websites in general, suffering from the same problem, and this is definitely sad.

What is that btw? Is it the top left search box in the file explorer in Windows? If so, I normally just use agent ransack to search files because it is faster and more convenient.

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I donā€™t know if this is the answer for you, but there may be a way to hack it.

https://linuxmusicians.com/viewtopic.php?t=26055

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Hmmmā€¦ While it is good to know there is a workaround for NA2 which is a step of improvement, it still depends on NA1 afaik. At least on windows, I seems to find NA1 starting to be a bit problematic which the image of each plugin failed to show up even in compatibility mode, suggesting a server side change which I am foreseeing it being non functional within two or three year in future. (Not a made up statement, which NI do have plan to make NA1 stop functioning in the near future.)