Hi there…

I am seeing the vegan thing is becoming more and more mainstream. I must say I am very happy with that…it keeps getting easier to find suitable vegan products. I’m now going some years vegetarian, and then since a year or so completely vegan. I feel it is among the best decisions I made in my life. I don’t wish to go back, I miss nothing, in contrary, it gives to me more than I had hoped for…

Why would one want to go vegan? I mainly did because of ethical reasons. I dislike that sentient beings who can suffer from pain and fear are bred in locked up stinking dens, are tormented and become sick, just to die painful and unnecessary deaths to be eaten or worn as everyday product. With years that I thought about the topic I kept feeling stronger and stronger that I was eating and wearing pain and death. I feel it is just sick and respectless to do so, and there are easy alternatives, so I felt that I DO have a CHOICE, I just have to try to make it real the right way. The world is hard in it’s nature, yes, but we can feel it and choose against, and many of use have been given by nature a strong urge to choose against, so what could be wrong about doing so?

Also as a spiritual person I consider that if I bring something to other beings in the course of my actions, I have to accept as possibility to have to experience it or something similar myself one day. I don’t want to be locked up sitting in my own shit, never see the sun and be bred sick and abused by wardens who have their souls burnt out because of their sick jobs and maybe suffer the most of all, I don’t want to have my children removed from me just to be killed, and have my flesh eaten and skin worn by mindless people. I don’t want to suffer, and I want to die free and in peace. I feel I am only worthy to try to attain that, to wellbeing and experiencing freedom, if I try to make sure that other beings don’t have to suffer and die in captivity because of me. So I don’t want to support that other beings have to come into such nightmare situations because of my appetite. I seems like the proper descision and kinda easy “sacrifice” for me to just try to boycott products containing any substance that beings had to suffer for. It makes me feel very happy every time I think about it and put it into practise.

If you belive in shithead lies like the animals would be having a happy life and die quick and without pain, I recommend watching the “Dominion documentary” on youtube. It is showing two hours of suffering and carnage by the standard animal products industry. They don’t even show what’s happening aside legality, but It is still very hard stuff to watch. Hence I don’t put a link in here, only watch it if you can stand very heart-tearing aminal abuse and splatter imagery, and feel you have the guts for it. This movie will make you seriously sick, and might spark the wish to go vegan in its audience. And it is not even hippie shit, it is just showing harsh realities…

But there seem to be also other motivations. Like the current climate change debate seems to motivate more and more people to go vegan, as it is the lower environmental footprint diet. I didn’t think very much about this, but I think it is a very good argument to do it. Also the climate mainstream thing seems to bring more and more vegan products and labeling into the supermarkets, so I can now have a “mainstream vegan meal™”, vegan fast food and vegan pizza delivery. It kind of makes the “sacrifice” deal much too easy…

Another interesting thing is the health impact and the wellbeing that can come from such a diet. I felt it only slighty when I dropped meat and had gone vegetarian, but I felt it like some strong but healthy drug when I dropped milk and eggs. Really, it was a step that felt similar like it did when I went alcohol abstinent and when I quit smoking tobacco. It makes a very fresh feeling, a fresh mind, and good energy, never congested by heavy stuff inside the body. Also I have chronic disease and have to do very ugly meds with side effects that strongly harm my body…all such symptoms became weaker after a while on vegan diet. I lost weight, but only by a healthy level and speed. Also eating more vegetable meals seems to have additional beneficial health impact, though you won’t get that with vegan cheezburgers…

Of course it is important to monitor your nutrition intake, I let my physician check my blood and supplement the lacking vitamins, calcium and trace elements by taking pills every day, just to make sure I don’t become sick. You have to do that, else you might become sick and regret the vegan choice, which would be a pity!

Also I feel like things taste much better. I developed some great appreciation for the taste of fresh plant food and herbs and spices. Everything starts to taste real good and defined after a while, even subtle stuff, while before as vegetarian or even omnivor it was nothing special. On the contrary, meat started smelling really icky and foul in my nose, like blood and pee and poo of the animals, like from great fear… Eggs now smell like fart to me, and milk or cheese like something smeary that should be thrown away.

What is your thought about the topic? Any other commited vegetarians or vegans in here? How you doing with it, what made you want it? Anyone here who thinks it is stupid bullshit and wants to troll or rant? Let’s share good vegan recipes? Any interesting unfalsifieable shithead theories, like humans (or even, only yourself) would be the only beings able to feel pain and all the animals don’t have one, so their suffering is just simulation and there for us be “enjoy”? I fear this thread will either be ignored, boring, or it will blow up - let’s do bets on what will happen here?

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I’m not vegan, but i understand that decision.

I think the biggest problems are the people for which everything has to be available at any time and of course the food industry. The amount of “animal based” products produced is much higher than needed to feed the people. There are also a lot of products which doesn’t necassery need animal based ingredients. It wouldn’t need mass animal hording if the population and industry world wide would be more prudently.

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It is proven that almost all animals have a very similar if not the same emotional base concept like we have. They can feel anger, pain, fear, happiness. Also almost all animals communicate like we do. And then - which was the main argument in ancient science - they also have a lot of logical thinking capabilities, even birds have this. They might not program a Renoise Tool, but only because they never needed this. And then there is one important thing about animals: They are much more important for the planet’s ecosystem than we are. We are obsolete, they are not.

That’s why there is no ethical reasonable cause to eat an animal, in my opinion, as long as you do not have to. And then look at the industry, how perverted this is. It’s driven by empathy-dead people who think of animals as ware or a product. Also this is mainly a problem of education of the farmers, but also big companies. Look at the pizzas in the supermarket’s fridge, you barely will find something with vegetables, it is mostly cheap pork.

They shredder 50% of all chickens, they torture these animals the whole life very often, it are really KZs for animals mostly. And I don’t think this is exaggerated, there are enough videos which prove that. They even are mass-shooting wild animals, because they are afraid, their “farm animals” could get sick of a disease and profits could shrink. The problem here again is our politics, driven by really perverted lobbyists. Even if all germans would stop eating pork, these companies would export it to china then. So the export of meat and animal-products should be banned by law. It is not essential for anybody.

But as you can see the production in Germany grows and grows, because of the export, and there are no attempts to stop that. Even very often SPD members were proud of the European biggest animal facilities in Germany. So even parties where you assumed that they care for empathy and respect do not care. Because of this alone I think that human kind deserves the apocalypse, which will be perceptible in 2100, and will be there in 2200. It is a sick system, which really is comparable with a huge cancer of the planet. It grows and grows, just because someone has to pay interest.

But I try not to think about this anymore. I cannot change it, I barely have an influence on this, so it is more healthy not to rack one’s brain. Human beings even are too stupid to change their habits or to abandon anything. They have no capabilities at all to take responsibility for all, or even for next generations. But the system has grown in such a way that this is required. Human beings deserve the apocalypse, because they are too stupid to coexistence (including me, because I am a human being).

I mostly eat no meat at all, but sometimes I am weak and dumb, and then I have the cheap excuse that it won’t change anything. Especially if I look around me, how normal it is for most (often fat) people to eat meat, even in my family. I also think that meat eaters have reduced brain capabilities. Maybe it is because they subconsciously feel that they are doing something really dumb.

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Good points with the brain capabilities and the emotional concepts in animals. I remember a study, that found that vegetarians would more often attribute “secondary” emotional concepts when interpreting videos of animals. While meat eaters would often rather not see such emotions in animals. Of course this is also a hen-egg problem, but it shows that people can be very different in that regard. I myself see animals like they are of my own kind, though often reduced in their capabilities and expressions when compared to humans.

IDK if the apocalypse wishes you have are the proper response to such problems. I sometimes also wish for that, when I think about the dark sides of life…but then I think that there are also people who dislike such practise like from the animal industry, and such people really wish to live, enjoy their gifts of life, wish to develop and be happy together with others… Just taking everything away would also deprive such people of their gift of life.

I do still hope, that some day all the fuzz could be worked out somehow, and peace could be brought to this planet together with an artificially stabilized ecosystem. I mean humans are just after a (quite short, like some thousand years, that is not so many lifetimes…) period of creating the base of civilisation and developing technology. Of course many sick things have been developed in the course of such action. But I think still there is hope, that there might be a phase of actually sorting out the problems and stabilizing civilisation, towards something very noble that I can already see and feel in culture every day as a sidenote already present in human’s hearts.

You are right, there might be destruction, but there might also be a chance to solve problems. You know, if humans are good for something, then it is solving problems that itch them, this way we survived all the way until now, and it might help us further on.

Of course many people are brute in minds and hearts and there will for sure be lots of fuzz and fight. I don’t even think this nature should be “erased” or prohibited. Rather this nature should be treated with a certain respect… Maybe all that would have to be done is to channel the bruteness into controlled realms, simulations or official “games” with official rules, so people could live through all the aggression that nature brings, and fight for certain resources as motivation… without actually harming innocent people which choose to not partake in such actions and relinquish of the prizes to live in peace…

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i’m vegetarian and am agree with lots of things in your message(i’m also schizo) indeed human make concentrations camps for animals when it touch human it’s a pity(normal )but when it touch to animal lots of peoples don’t care .
i feel not better physically or whatever but i feel better in my head to not kill animals just for my stomach(in add most of the meat are take the way off the trash).
there is a think who disappointed me is that alimentary market sell lots of expensive vegan products but you’re right we can cook ;).

Hm, I don’t think so. People have proven that they are not capable of self reflect, or really understanding equal rights for everybody (basic law). The whole system is based on non-equality. See nuclear weapons discussion or the discussion about CO2 emissions. The CDU/FDP/AFD now started to argue that China would produce much more CO2. Forums are flooded with this by CDU and AFD monkeys. Which is of course right, if you look at the total numbers (surprisingly our government just published such statistics). But either they are too dumb or too selfish to realize that they have to look at the CO2 emission per head, because it is the only fair statistics. China has ~17x more people than Germany, but the per-head-expose still is lower there. Or that a lot of European companies actually produce in China, but are counted to China’s stats. Most people do not care about such facts anymore, now they found a reason not to change their lives or even the economy. Very similar is the discussion regarding nuclear weapons. Countries with thousands of such weapons except from other countries to have none. I cannot see any development here in such very basic skills. I do not wish the apocalypse, I only think it will come. Because of this country, not the others.

Not a vegetarian but some of my friends are so I know the points and argumentzz and also aggree a bit with the said above. What I didnt know is the huge impact on our World I mean if this is true??

Sure that meat industry is producing a lot of CO2. Also industrial fishing is destructing sealife.

I’m not vegetarian but I’ve reduced a lot meat consumption for my meals since years ago (in fact I no eat meat everydays). Also I drink less milk (only from cows raised outdoors), an buy eggs only from hens raised outdoors. Of course I don’t eat too much fishes too. But I sometimes regret not being able to be vegan completely… I progress little by little.

For me the main problem is about animals conditions, but I think the main thing that will raise the vegan/vegetarian cause will be global warming.