Virus Ti And Latency

I just noticed the virus does not get the right plugin delay compensation when using effects with high latencies.
I used the fabfilter pro-q plugin in linear mode and the virus gets out of sync. I never noticed it before because I only used effect with small latencies.
Can anybody else confirm this?

Does the plugin compensation works properly with the fabfilter plugin in the first place?
Also what happens if you change the static buffering settings on the fabfilter?

The latency on fabfilter works ok. I can see the right PDC in the PDC info. Static buffer doesn’t seem to do anything. Looks like everything gets corrected with PDC exept the virus.

I’m using the fabfilter plug on a vst, not the virus.

Perhaps another TI user can come to the rescue here? (or confirm the problem)
I don’t know which Virus driver you are currently using, that would be the only question remaining.
The Virus crew resolved some synchronizing issues in their drivers a rough year ago to resolve latency issues.

I’m using the latest official OS. There is a beta avaible, but haven’t installed it yet.
Would be nice if someone with a TI could confirm. At the moment I keep using fx plug with small latencies, so no linear phase eq. Next week I’ll test other fx plugs with high latency. If somebody knows some fx with latencies of around 80 - 100 ms, let me know so I can try…

I tried the demo of pro-q, renoise 2.7 beta, 4.5 TiOS (the public beta), TI-Snow.
From what I can “hear” it’s not out of synch.
But if I at the same time watch the pattern at linear-high it’s as much as half a beat out of synch visualy to what I’m hearing.
I had to close my eyes and not watch the pattern.
At linear-low or zero-latency there is no difference between the visual and audio representation.

Maybe if you can post a sample .xrns I can try the same “setup”.

I don’t think an example will work cause I have the full TI which usus another VST plug. Did you use the pro-q on the virus or on another track? In my setup I didn’t use the pro q on the virus so everything got compensated exept the virus. I’m not completely shure if this is the case, i have to test a bit more if the virus is playing in front or behind the timing. Haven’t had the time yet, but will check in the next days or so.

As far as I know it’s the same plug/engine.
But you have more horsepower in the full TI, so e.g. you don’t have a 4 patch limit on a multi.
I’ve tried both, having pro-q on a different track and on the track with the TI VST.

Still haven’t had the time to test this any futher. Will be uploading a project and some audio soon…

the last time I tested this was with 2.6. I could not get the timing right and went back to plain old MIDI.
You don’t have problems without fabfilter? or is the extra latency just make it noticeable?

I don’t have fabfilter installed, so I can’t test this.
The only thing I know is that this is a problem with quite a history.

No my virus TI works great with renoise and the VC plug. I would almost say even better than cubase :) I use 2.6.1 and since i bought renoise just a few month ago i never tried any older versions.
I’m just not shure if the ti gets the right latency when using fx with latency.
Until now I just used vst fx with small latencies so I didn’t notice this, but with the fabfilter plug in linear phase mode this becomes very obvious. Any (insert effect) plug with high latency would probably do the same.

I still did not have the time to investigate any futher. I will do this as soon as possible, cause maybe it was something i did wrong…

Ok, so I tested it a little futher.
If I only use one instrument slot for the virus everything is fine.
Because the virus has multiple instruments and outputs I use a VST Alias to make use of the other patches on other midi channels. Here is where it goes wrong.

On the first virus track the notes get send to the plugin directly and is always in time.
On the second track (and third) the notes get send to the virus plug via a vst alias and gets horribly out of time using the fabfilter pro q on linear phase.

I tested it only with the usb outputs, but I believe the analogs went out of time too.

Here’s the test project. It’s for the full TI, so probably doesn’t work with the snow. Also the fabfilter pro q vst is used.

Hope someone can shed some light on this. I think it not only with the fabfilter plug, but applies to all insert fx’s with latency (normally to small to notice).

Well I just replaced the TI plugin with the snow and setup the same thing again.
And with three instruments in place at the same time with the fabfilter in place there are issues with timing.
When looking at the PDC info box, the virus instruments are reported to have 90ms latency, the fabfilter 69ms latency, each track is compensated with 69ms.

So this is not a big problem for you then? Do you have a workaround for using the other midi channels of your virus? I did not test any other high latency vst plugs, but I assume the result is the same. I want to have the ‘sample accurate timing’ access claims the virus to have. I think if you use plugs with 5ms latency the same thing happens.

Well as I said, there are timing issues.
So if I were to use the fabfilter plugin using Linear then the timing would be off and I would have the same issue as you.
Can’t say that I’ve tried that many external plugins which are prone to have a high latency though.

Not sure what you meant by using the other midi channels, I replaced the TI-plugin as it expects a full TI.
E.g. in the snow-plugin I only have 4 slots to put patches on while you have 16.
But routing etc. is the same, so I picked three instruments at random on slot 1-3, routed 1 to USB1_1, 2 to USB1_2, 3 to USB1_3 (can’t remember the exact names). Then assigning each to a track/instrument in Renoise.
So basicly the exact same setup that you had created only I had to start the snow version of the plugin.

Well to my ears, if I use the fabfilter in Zero Latency mode, I can’t at least hear that there are any latency between the virus sounds and the track with the highhat+fabfilter.
I’ve used the same kind of setup with other plugin’s.
Sometimes no issues at all and sometimes the virus started to drift, which have been reported with other DAW’s as well, mainly when using ther arpegiator.
So if you look at e.g. or the access forums I’m pretty sure you’ll find posts about similar issues.
There are no known, as far as I know, cause for these problems but most likely it’s due to the way the plugins work.

The first instrument in renoise (right top) there is the hihat sample.
The second instrument is the virus plug (midi channel 1 to usb1)
The third instrument is an alias of the virus plug to access channel 2 of the virus (to usb2)
The forth instrument is an alias to virus channel 3 (to usb3)

In your above post I cannot make up if you use the vst alias of the virus. I’ve had this virus for years and i know the problems it had with old TIOS especially the arps, but this is not what I’m talking about.

Did you use the VST alias function in renoise to acces channel 2 and 3 of the virus? This is where the sound goes out of time, not just a little bit but something like a 1/8 note with pro q in linear phase. I used very basic short noise patches without arps to check the timing.

If you have another way of accessing the other midi channels of the virus than using the vst alias function I would really want to know, cause this is where the problem lies…

Ok here is how I set it up, I used the vst aliases just as you did.
I included the PDC info.


I don’t get it. Maybe it’s because you use renoise 2.7
On the tracks where I use the vst alias I get a VERY big (maybe negative) latency and I understand you don’t…
What can it be? Are there any other virus ti users that would want to test?
Anyway thanks for the help Haplo…

Mind you that it’s still not in synch with a linear setting with this setup, I can hear the difference.
With the zero-latency setting in the fab-plugin they are in synch.
In my previous test when I couldn’t hear the synch issues I only used one instrument in the virus plugin.

Okey, so you do have the same problem.
If you don’t use third party plugs as fx this is probably not a problem for you.
I do use third party plugs alot, but normally not with such high latencies. It was with the fabfilter plug that i noticed. I will do some more testing as soon as possible with other plugs. I tend to use a lot of ‘external’ vst eq’s wich give latencies of around 5 to 10ms. While this is not immidiatly noticeble in the audio, it’s probably there…

I’ll update soon.