VST Acoustic Instruments Realism & Commands

Hi everyone, I’m trying to get a realistic sound from vst acoustic instruments using commands mainly.
I used to work with samples and impulse tracker so commands seem faster to me than involving envelopes.

There are three main issues:

· Is there any command to control vst keyboards pedals. sustain, soft… ?

· When using certain instruments like strings or winds, the “mod wheel” controls intensity. Can intensity be
changed using commands after the note has been triggered? Midi control pressure doesnt seem to work.

· And this is the harder issue. For pitch / legato meta instr Midi control seems to be the only way.
But when using strings, is there any possibility of anything like “auto legato” or auto pitch envelope from
note to note, with even ease in ?

Thanks for reading. (w7x64 + renoise2.8x32)

dont know what vst you are using.

if you dont want to use an automation/midi device (to declare the parameters you want to control with pattern commands [up to 16]).

but generally, most vsts can be controlled via midi too.

cc no. are:
modwheel = 01
pedal = 04
portamento = 05

or look them up here

remember, its the general midi standard (a protocol) that is used for most vstis.

sry, for “auto legato”, ive to pass.
… already tried 0Gxx on a vst? (dont know if it works)

you cannot use 0Gxy with a VST instrument. automatic legato is a feature which has to be offered by the instrument, not by Renoise. Usually, the instrument should have a “mono” mode which features automatic legato, otherwise this is not implemented and then not possible to do in Renoise.

as for standard MIDI control changes numbers, here there are some:

01 expression
07 volume
64 (40h) sustain

others usually vary from instrument to instrument and in general are modifiable using “MIDI learn” feature on the instrument itself

as for the channel pressure (and aftertouch), both are implemented into Renoise as already pointed out in the above link, so it’s up to the instrument to feature them, otherwise Renoise can’t do anything about it

speaking in general, a VST host (like Renoise or any other) cannot modify the sound of a single note coming from a VST instrument directly: it can just “tell” to the instrument what it should do, using MIDI CC commands. If the instrument “understands” the command, the instrument itself will perform it, otherwise the host can’t do anything about it, that’s why most of Renoise’s standard commands are uneffective on VST instruments

Regarding legato - even for sample-based instruments, if you want an immediate change of pitch without transition on the same note, like left-hand fingering changes on a stringed instrument, the only way to do it is to stack a bunch of GFF commands on the same track. Sadly there is no “correct” way to do it as of v2.8.1 (and this also won’t work with VST instruments) You could also set the global pitch settings to FT2/Amiga, then a single GFF command would be sufficient, but that would affect ALL pitch commands in the whole song, at least for sample based instruments.

Not sure what you mean by “auto” legato… like a pitch envelope?

by “auto legato” he means what in VST instrument is called “legato mode” or “mono mode”: each time a note is playing and, while holding this note, a new one is played, the first on is ported to the second one instead of playing the two note concurrently.

this is achieved by:

  • setting the instrument in “mono” or “legato” mode (see instrument manual"
  • putting the two notes into two different note columns:
--- E-4 <= this will port C-4 to E-4  
--- ---  

how fast the note will be pitched is up to the instrument configuration in that moment and it should be possible to change this parameter through a MIDI CC command (see instrument manual)

Hi, thanks…
I’ve been checking the midi functions as described here:

I’ve checked pedal and the modwheel using the Mx in the panning column…
For modwheel, I’ve tested cinebrass and it works.

But for pedals, i’ve tested pianoteq and galaxy german baby, and they don’t react.
I see Midi control in charge are n.04 or n.64, but none work… If 04 is sustain pedal,
is there any way to control soft or sostenuto pedals?

About the legato, and the vst mono option, i’ve tested cinebrass, miroslav philharmonik
and the legato sounds really bad… Miroslav seems to be pitching the last note/sample
instead of make some kind of morph between samples, not sure. Do you know any vst
string, brass product capable of good results?

Pianoteq pedals definitely work well, I use them all the way. Rightclick each pedal to set the MIDI CC number, but the defaults work. If you want to know more about the pedals (like for example knowing their default CC number) hold the mouse over them and wait a second: a popup view will appear with some info.

remember to convert the number you see into hexadecimal: for example, 64 is 40h, so you should use

note ins vol pan comm  
--- 01 -- M1 407F  

in order to set MIDI CC #64 to max and the depress the pedal.

can’t check now, but if I remember well the other pedals shold be corresponding to the next CC numbers: 65 (41h), 66 (42h)

Thanks¡ It works, i was confused about the hexadecimals…

By the way, It-alien, your songs are very original, even the holy Univers Zero comes to my mind.
It amaze me when computer generated music sounds real in the acoustic way, and explores different genres.

As you may have somewhat similar musical likes, I have a little ‘freaky’ question, could you know any vst or not artist with
catchy songs, unusual melodies and compositions, in the mood of syd barret, sam and the plants, renaldo and the loaf … ?
Or anyone using vocaloid in a good way?


thanks for comparing me to the holiness of Univers Zero :)/> I am amazed that someone on this forum knows them. On the other hand, I don’t know anything about Sam and the plants and Renaldo and the loaf :)/> so, it’s not very easy to give you some band names.

maybe you could take a look at my last.fm profile to discover something you may like.

I particularly like Zeuhl music. If you do so, you may want to listen to Koenjihyakkei or Universal Totem Orchestra. however, my musical tastes embraces so many genres that it is difficult to find something into that jungle :)

Bumping this thread just to say how blown away I am by Univers Zero! if other albums are like the one I’m listening now, I’ll have one of new favorite bands :smiley: It’s like 2nd/3rd King Crimson / first Emerson Lake and Palmer album soaked in slightly obscureish avant-garde a’la Art Zoyd that gives it very unique taste. Stunning stuff! I’m hooked :smiley: Thanks guys!