It looks like a cool tool idea, similar in funtion to the automasher tool.
It would great if it could do variable depth curves like The autobender tool in the tools catalogue.
It looks like a cool tool idea, similar in funtion to the automasher tool.
It would great if it could do variable depth curves like The autobender tool in the tools catalogue.
Two curves come to mind. One, a straight slope over time,either up or down. The other is a sigmoidal (I think that’s the name).
At the moment, with Automa32 it is possible to create simple curves with the tools that are integrated below. For example:
Any reverse or mirror of these curves. In other words, you create these curves and you can turn them around with just one click.
5.
Control of points with even values, odd values, all values, values > 0.5 or <0.5.Thanks to this they can be made, for example, saw teeth.
6.
Curve in the form of a staircase, each step is formed by a horizontal line and another inclined line.
7. Pyramid curve, 3 points.
8. Gaus bell curve, 3 points.
9. Aleatory control, until 32+1 points.
10. Exact slopes of several points or inaccurate slopes, adjusted to each line.
To create exact curves, for example a quarter of a circle, it is necessary to use multiple points in linear, similar to the Autobender.The automation editor of Renoise is limited by the curve line. It only works with sinusoidal curves, and it is not possible to manipulate the curve to attenuate it (open or close the curve more, exaggerate it).Then it is necessary to add many points and that starts to get out of control. Personally, I do not like to fill a pattern of multiple points, much less to create a perfect quarter-circle curve, which should be defined by only two points and its stroke.
The theme is to create curves with just one click. To be able to manipulate them later from the tool, with the minimum possible operations, being able to create traces with 2 or up to 32 + 1 points, from any line, and that also close well at the end of the line (final time of the last covered line by the stroke or curve).
Personally, I use a lot of smooth straight slopes and very exaggerated slopes. What initially interests is to be able to create curves that are really useful, not traces that really do not make much sense. The aumatization editor can control any parameter of any device in the effect chain of the selected track. You can do wonders with traces of curves, depending on which parameter is controlled. It is a pity that the automation editor does not have elaborate integrated tools to create a multitude of different curves (buttons, sliders …). There is no odd or even control. Increasing or decreasing the group value in a selection of points is even dangerous for the times of each point. It is easy to waste time when raising or lowering the value with the pointer. In the end it is difficult to handle and the user does not feel comfortable. Above, to know the value of each point, it is necessary to click on the point, trying to guess. If you fail, you will move the point. The point has no tooltip to indicate its value.
What gives me a bit of anger, is that adding the functions and buttons controls to create a multitude of specific curves is not too complicated to program. But to be really agile, everything must be in the automation editor, not in an external tool. It is not about filling a drop-down menu with a few pre-established curves, but control buttons to create new curves and manipulate curves already created.
Whichever you use assiduously the automation editor, you could leave painted the curves that you use the most inside this topic.
I want to have a line with a handle for curve… Very simple in usage, just like in Bitwig or Cubase. No need for predefined presets, never won’t fit to the individual case.
Also I want the API to finally provide proper graphics drawing, a.k.a. line drawing, curve drawing, bitmap layering. Also I wan the API to provide proper custom storage in a song for tool data, within a bin-encoded node in the song xml. No nasty workarounds anymore or saving alongside using another file.
I want to have a line with a handle for curve… Very simple in usage, just like in Bitwig or Cubase. No need for predefined presets, never won’t fit to the individual case.
Also I want the API to finally provide proper graphics drawing, a.k.a. line drawing, curve drawing, bitmap layering. Also I wan the API to provide proper custom storage in a song for tool data, within a bin-encoded node in the song xml. No nasty workarounds anymore or saving alongside using another file.
I wish everything was integrated, to be able to create new envelopes very easily. But I also believe that if there are different control buttons for certain things, you can create envelopes with some symmetry, almost impossible to build adding points one by one.In addition, a tool or the automation editor itself could insert a new predefined curve from the selected line. And if it also allows you to control the height of the selected points or a group of points from the selected line to the end of the pattern, you can control, for example, all the values> 0.5 or <0.5 or the line points or odd or all, and that implies up / down buttons, left / right.
If it is possible to manipulate the envelopes in this way, very good curves can be created for specific parameters. In addition, it is possible to create a curve, place another from the different lines later, within the same pattern.
However, the automation editor, apart from being basic when it comes to control tools, has certain limitations, for example:
With some tools made with LUA, it is possible to alleviate all this.However, it is common for available tools related to automation, contain errors or do not work well,and with the documentation available for the automation editor, it is more complicated to control the _observables, so it’s more complicated to coordinate Renoise with the tool, rather than the other way around.For example, remove an envelope from the automation editor and have the tool react.
In this link there is a small demonstration XRNS of what can be done with automa32:https://forum.renoise.com/t/development-of-vpdpro-automa32-some-demonstrations/48454
A related screenshot:
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:7718]
Really have respect for the huge work you are doing, and totally agree with your points about what’s missing - Still I believe that you basically will loose you time doing such a complex tool, since automation editing needs to be fixed on core level.
Really have respect for the huge work you are doing, and totally agree with your points about what’s missing - Still I believe that you basically will loose you time doing such a complex tool, since automation editing needs to be fixed on core level.
Actually, the tool is not very complex to build. Simplifying is like controlling the coordinates (X, Y) of a point in a plane, with the time (the X) variable. Then you use iteration to add more points and that’s it. LUA has mathematical operations that help complete the conditions in the functions, so creating a tool of this style is not complicated. It is more complicated to make a tool like Autobender, which generates curves with many points, which is just what I do not want to see. But yes, it would be great if everything was under the hood of Renoise. But you already know that Renoise’s development is “parked” and maybe, a deserved improvement, would imply rewriting the entire automation editor. As it is a more laborious task, it is doubtful that in the end it will be carried out.Possibly, if some control buttons and the tooltip were added at each point and little else, many would be at least a little more satisfied.
But meanwhile…
Nor would I mind throwing the tool away if in the end the automation editor is drastically improved by the Renoise team. In fact, I am convinced that I would not take long to update the tool.So any change is not a problem.The problem is just the opposite, that nothing changes, nothing is improved.
When will a beta (or alpha) be available for us to try?
Also: crazy impressed by the GUI. I find it a struggle to get decent layouts. How did you get so good?
When will a beta (or alpha) be available for us to try?
Also: crazy impressed by the GUI. I find it a struggle to get decent layouts. How did you get so good?
Thank you!
I was about to publish the VPDpro tool a couple of weeks ago. I even asked for permission to be enabled in my account in order to publish the tool at www.renoise.com. But then, it occurred to me that something was missing, and that something was Automa32. Actually, the VPDpro main window is finished, as well as the EffectPad and ChordPad windows and all its MIDI Input links. I need to “calibrate” and refine Automa32, which still has some faults that have to do with mathematics and with the limits of values.
If you want to have the current version as I have it now of VPDpro, send me a PM with your e-mail and you can try the VPDpro tool, even though Automa32 is not yet finished.Until Automa32 is finished, I will not officially publish the first version of VPDpro.Nor am I going to publish a beta or alpha version. I do not want to have anything published of my creation that does not work well.This is my first rule after publishing my GT16-Colors, a tool that is not completely polished for multiple reasons (I tried to build things that can not be done with the Viewbuilder).
I started with this from LUA relatively recently, less than 2 years ago. I have been very persistent in the Renoise forums related to programming to create tools, and at the beginning Danoise, 4Tey and Joule have helped me a lot to understand many things about LUA, and especially about the available Renoise API.But I was also very persistent looking on the forums by myself. If I did not know something, I would ask, and luckily, there is almost always someone who answers.
To get a good GUI I have several rules of my own:
I am still 50% of what I should know to make good GUIs. Imagine if I knew the rest.Believe me, it is possible to build even better GUIs.
PS: I’ve been watching your website. I see that you are many tools published for Renoise :).
I thought this is a Renoise 4 Update or something!. Looks like an independent - standalone program , but not a tool ! Waiting to test this out !Like you can call it Curvesculpt or something
Btw, can i create a virtual sidechaine-alike curves with it?
I thought this is a Renoise 4 Update or something!. Looks like an independent - standalone program , but not a tool ! Waiting to test this out !Like you can call it Curvesculpt or something
Btw, can i create a virtual sidechaine-alike curves with it?
View this:https://forum.renoise.com/t/development-of-vpdpro-automa32-some-demonstrations/48454
Download the XRNS (vpdpro-automa32-boomerang-demo.xrns) and view the envelope of Pre Volume inside the automation editor.You mean a curve like this?That constantly goes up and down the pre volume.This is possible because separate groups of points can be injected. For example, first the top points in a group (Y max), and then the bottom points (Y min), in another group displaced 0.010 in the time (X).And that with 4 clicks.
I listened to the demo song and looked at the automation waves. It’s interesting how there are things I don’t bother to consider because the automation would be too hard.
I just want Illustrator style automation points, it would make it very easy to make the curve the way you want it without too much hassle.
I just want Illustrator style automation points, it would make it very easy to make the curve the way you want it without too much hassle.
Is this not the same as what FFX says?You basically define a straight line with 2 points. Between those two points appears a handle to be able to stretch the line and turn it into a curve to your liking, without adding more points.
These things should be under the hood of the automation editor. In a tool it is impossible. The most similar thing is to autobender, but it injects many points, and that’s a bit of a mess. In theory, a curve should not have more than 2 points, origin and end, and attenuate it with a lateral handle.And of course, with tooltip in each point without clicking.
On the other hand, here are some practical examples of what Automa32 is capable of doing:https://forum.renoise.com/t/development-of-vpdpro-automa32-some-demonstrations/48454
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:7735]
These things should be under the hood of the automation editor. In a tool it is impossible. The most similar thing is to autobender, but it injects many points, and that’s a bit of a mess. In theory, a curve should not have more than 2 points, origin and end, and attenuate it with a lateral handle.And of course, with tooltip in each point without clicking.
Man !! cant wait to test it ! This will be really interesting in Dubstep and idm stuff ! Genius ! @_@
Man !! cant wait to test it ! This will be really interesting in Dubstep and idm stuff ! Genius ! @_@
Do you mean the supposed improvements that a new version of Renoise can contain with a better automation editor? Is that what you want to try? Then you will have to wait a long time. I do not want to be a pessimist, but I have not read anywhere that there are plans to improve the automation editor, either soon (next version 3.2) or in the future. I do not know.FFX seems to assume that the automation editor will receive improvements. I have doubts about it. But of all that there is of Renoise, it is the automation editor that I would most like that Renoise Team (Taktik) improve.
Meanwhile, I am entertained with Automa32.Now I understand why Danoise likes this to do the code of his tools. Sometimes I even engages programming, and I spend hours with trial and error, and when one thing works well, I feel fulfilled. I wish there were more people doing code to create tools, and I would discuss the code in the forums. I miss this kind of activity in the forums.
With Automa32 the whole goal is to create envelopes, not only small curves.This implies a much broader vision or field. For the experimental production, idm, sidechaining, etc,it can be a good tool.But I am very aware that all these functions, if they are really useful, should be integrated under the hood of Renoise, with an automation editor that allows to create complete curves and envelopes and manipulate them more easily.
With effect chains it is possible to create oscillating effects. But the automation editor allows you to draw different behaviors over time, and that’s great to coordinate with the flow of music.The most beastly thing is that the automation editor can control any parameter of any device within the chain, and that’s great. That’s why I want a much better automation editor. In fact, I’m sure many users do not use the automation editor because they do not feel comfortable with it.It’s a real shame, because it has enormous potential.
With a little control when selecting the work area, it is possible to create curves that respect certain symmetry, and that allows generating useful behaviors for the composition.In short, expand creativity by using the automation editor,do not conform only with the basic controls; for other work areas ok, but for the automation editor no, it should be much better, precisely because it allows controlling all parameters. I do not know if most of you are aware of the potential for this… It’s huge!!!
What? No. I don’t assume anything anymore, also have zero information about what is going on or not.
What? No. I don’t assume anything anymore, also have zero information about what is going on or not.
It will remain a mystery :lol:.
…No need for predefined presets, never won’t fit to the individual case.
…
…never won’t fit to the individual case. This has been a dilemma for me, when starting the code of this tool (Automa32). The reference I have taken is always to add curves from left to right, and to have the reference of the “value” of the last point (the one that has the last “time” in the envelope). I think that Automa32 will be able to include in intermediate sections also without influencing the rest of the envelope.
But there is another interesting subject to keep in mind. The composer can create the curve before composing the pattern. This provides a certain game when it comes to creating. Normally it is the other way around, you create the pattern, and according to the rhythm of the music or melody, you generate the curve or the whole envelope. But you can control all the parameters of the devices with envelopes, and this gives a lot of play, even doing the procedure backwards: create the curve first, and then compose the pattern.
Anyway I intend that Automa32 can offer an agile way of creating curves or complete envelopes, but also that you can adjust them in the corresponding section, both in the X (time) and in the Y (value).
I also had to think about a grid.For each pattern there is an envelope.This involves forcing a little the end of each curve so that it occupies the entire width of the envelope, and can work from the tool without having to add single points with the mouse.Adding a group of points ordered with one or two clicks can save a lot of work, even if it is a pre-set curve that does not fit your pattern, at least in most curves or simple lines.If it is a bit mismatched, you can always adjust a group of points by dragging.This tool forces us to work more with groups of “ordered” points than for single points (for single points it is better to use the mouse. The controls with the keyboard commands are not as agile).For this reason, at least with the automation editor, the more things you can do with the mouse, is better.
I must recognize, that of all the tools I have built so far, Automa32 is the most dynamic and fun.You can experience new things with curves. You will have curves impossible to create with the mouse and find new sound textures.
Edit: by the way, the Automa32 tool is already prepared to configure 96 preset curves, through 3 banks of 32 buttons.It is necessary to add the values of time and value of each point and the icon of each button. It’s fun!
Yourselves have more examples of curve construction here:https://forum.renoise.com/t/development-of-vpdpro-automa32-some-demonstrations/48454
Look at the screenshot gifs.
I thought this is a Renoise 4 Update or something!. Looks like an independent - standalone program , but not a tool ! Waiting to test this out !Like you can call it Curvesculpt or something
Btw, can i create a virtual sidechaine-alike curves with it?
[sharedmedia=core:attachments:7736]
During steps are created up to 3 envelopes, you can try the sound of the selected pattern-track to the 3 envelopes.See the top link for more details.