What DAC should I buy?

Hi.

I recently bought one of those new motherboards with replaceable Operation Amplifier (OP-AMP) and Audio Gain controls. They market these as cool features and charge extra for motherboards that have these, but it turned out to be terrible for composing music. First of all, that OP-AMP seems to be coloring music, which makes it impossible to do mixing/mastering on this thing. Additionally, the Audio Gain operates from 2.5x signal amplification to 6x signal amplification (i.e. you cannot turn the damn thing off). The problem with this is that it amplifies the floor noise (all the little noises your hardware inside the computer makes - especially power supply or video card). I have studio monitor speakers KRK Rokit 6, so I don’t need any additional gain at the signal source, since my speakers already have an amplifier built in.

It seems that the in order to skip the Op-AMP and the Audio Gain, I need to use SPDIF digital output, and convert it to analog signal outside my computer using some sort of external DAC. I want something that I can connect separately to a power outlet (not USB powered). I just want to run a Toslink cable from my motherboard to the exteranl DAC, and then from external DAC to my Rokit speakers. No need for any amplifiers. I tried this setup with a cheapo DAC from Monoprice that I had lying around here, and all those annoying static noises and sound coloring were gone. However, my cheapo DAC doesn’t produce very good quality sound (I think I payed like $15 for it). So I need something better to take the full advantage of my studio speakers.

What would you recommend? There are so many choices… it’s overwhelming. I need some help. My budget is no more than $200

Thanks!

You may be wanting to look at an audio interface. An audio interface is a usb soundcard, so it will bypass the one inside. Using an audio interface is not uncommon as it’s a cheep solution that directly supports asio. I use a ur22, costs 150$ at the moment. There are several other possibilities in this price range. Don’t dismiss the possibility that one day you’ll want to start recording.

The ‘better sounding’ sound cards, especially for games very often apply a constant eq, soavoid them for music creation.

EDIT: something I’m not certain if other interfaces lack, but the ur allows you to use the asio driver and wdm driver at the same time so you can have windows audio and asio audio at the same time, moreover, same goes for the inputs, record in asio and have that running to Skype at the same time.

I’ve got a UR22 also and recommend it. Very flat response, no color, great for tracking/monitoring. Has never been a problem, very stable with great pres, very good DAC (but not great – the best are expensive as hell. I’ve noticed the UR22 cuts out a lot of harmonic info that I’d rather be able to keep sometimes). A dedicated interface is probably the most efficient solution these days. If you’re on a Mac, look into an Apogee, they’re excellent (but pricier). If money’s no issue some time in the future (I know you said ~$200 budget), look into RME. Worth it, I wish I’d kept my old Babyface.

That UR22 looks great. My main concern is that since it is connected through USB, it may pick up all that static noise that my computer is generating. And this is the main issue I’m trying to solve here. It would be best if I could try to connect it to my system, and if the static noise is still audible, then I would like to return it. I see they have them at Amazon. Do you guys know what is their return policy?

Damn, this thing looks cool. I want! :slight_smile: But I need to make sure I can return it if it doesn’t solve my static noise problem.

I see they also have UR12 that costs $100, and the main difference seems to be MIDI in/out (which I don’t need) and RCA outputs for speakers (I’m fine with that). Would UR12 also be good?

And what is “phantom power”?

Can you give a sample of the static noise? Normally if you get a problem with usb power (which can be solved by an external usb power supply) it sounds more like a non-audio-file loaded into renoise as a sample. But the interface should not have any issues. Oh and you wont be able to connect it to a usb hub and to avoid the issue above, connect it to the back, directly to the motherboard not via the front (which leads to the usb header on the motherboard)

I see they also have UR12 that costs $100, and the main difference seems to be MIDI in/out (which I don’t need) and RCA outputs for speakers (I’m fine with that). Would UR12 also be good?

And what is “phantom power”?

I imagine if it has the same pres and DAC chip(s) as the UR22 it’d be the same. The pres are Yamaha D-Pres…? Something like that. The specs are probably on Steinberg’s site. Never had a noise issue but setups differ a lot. Anyway I have a bunch of instruments posted in the downloads section, all recorded just simple direct input with the UR22 if you want to hear something from one.

I had the UR22 for a while. Great starter interface and better than anything on-board your machine, no doubt. The D-Pre’s are only placed on the ADC and not the DAC. If you’re worried about ground noise, which is most likely coming from your power supply, then you should be equally worried about the dominant downside of RCA going out to your monitors: impedance issues. Also, phantom power is a 48v current run to a pin on a mic through an XLR cable; it powers microphones that require it.

RCA only? Naah.
I highly recommend using balanced cables to connect from audio interface to speakers.
At least for me and my KRKs it made a day vs. night difference noisewise.

Interesting advices. Thanks a lot.

Maybe one more question then: what Power Supply would you recommend? I have Corsair CX750 right now and it generates lots of static noise (and also audible noise - like a coil whine). I’m trying to replace it now - I’m in the process of arguing with Corsair who should pay for shipping. But are there any PSUs that you guys recommend?

What’s wrong with the one you have? can you give a sample of that static noise?

Coil whine is never really an issue unless you’re one of those people who like to keep their computer atcuddling distance.

You may be wanting to look at an audio interface. An audio interface is a usb soundcard, so it will bypass the one inside. Using an audio interface is not uncommon as it’s a cheep solution that directly supports asio. I use a ur22, costs 150$ at the moment. There are several other possibilities in this price range. Don’t dismiss the possibility that one day you’ll want to start recording.

The ‘better sounding’ sound cards, especially for games very often apply a constant eq, soavoid them for music creation.

EDIT: something I’m not certain if other interfaces lack, but the ur allows you to use the asio driver and wdm driver at the same time so you can have windows audio and asio audio at the same time, moreover, same goes for the inputs, record in asio and have that running to Skype at the same time.

Thanks a lot for this advice. To robohymn too. I bought that UR22 and all the static noise is gone! It’s almost completely quiet. Definitely a good buy. They have just released drivers for Windows 10, so everything works really smoothly on my new PC, and Renoise nicely detects ASIO. I’m getting 8ms latency at 48kHz with 384 samples buffer, which I think is decent.

One thing I really like, and was surprised to discover once I bought it, is that I can have speakerst and headphones connected at the same time and controlled via two different gain knobs. This is going to be perfect for mastering/mixing, as I usually switch a lot between speakers and headphones, and with my previous setup I had to keep plugging headphones in and out constantly, which gets tiring very quickly.

Thanks again for help, guys. Love the community here! :slight_smile:

If you experience interfering noises from your hardware and such you should buy a hum eliminator. It will remove all such noises on any system.

Btw isn’t there any usb3 audio interface available (except the new one from uad)? I mean usb2 really doesn’t have such good latency if you compare to FireWire or PCI / pcie… I wonder if usb3 would solve this problem?

Edit:
Have a look here https://www.gearslutz.com/board/9008504-post409.html

Esi Julia xte looks interesting :slight_smile:

^I thought the ~4ms latency is a practicality limitation of the audio hardware, not USB 2.0

Hello world, Unfortunately, I had to sell my favorite Audient ID14 audio interface… The reason why it was sold was because RENOISE doesn’t want to scroll play using that card. So I started using my VIRUS TI2 card instead and its smooth… I am shopping for a new interface… Steinberg UR22 with midi and or Roland duo capture ex with midi…

Anyone knows which one is really stable on RENOISE?

I can highly recommend the Behringer UMC series. Have an 404 and an 1820. ASIO drivers working stable in every DAW I have tested it, on Windows and Mac.

Good sound quality, very good price.

I was surprised in a very positive way about the shielding, the quality and the (macos) drivers of my new used Presonus Firestudio Mobile, which i bought for 60€. I guess there are good usb variants, too.

+1 to the 1820’s quality. Being able to expand it with 8 more ins and outs with their ADA8200 is a great option to have, too.

I’m currently using my Access Virus TI2 as a sound card . The problem is I use an Alesis MMT8 hard ware midi sequencer… I can’t use both unfortunately. SO I bought the UR22 M2 I hope it works because I had to sell the Audient ID14 because, it wouldn’t play (the matrix doesn’t move). I was told it was an audio interface thing…

I’m really crossing my fingers that UR22 mk2 rox RENOISE(my awesome best friend DAW ever)