Where are my linux users out there?

  • It’s a 2.0 interface, and a 2.0 cable, plugged into a 2.0 port, why in the world would plugging it into a 3.0 port possibly make a difference? (I’ll try it though)

Sorry for the confusion: I didn’t mean that USB 3 brings any benefit for a USB 2 device, that was just a way to find the faster USB port on your machine and avoid the ones connected to an internal hub as some notebooks do (which is to be avoided in any case for soundcards).

  • Can you point me to the relevant guide? I’ve tried Mint in the past by my current install is the latest Ubuntu. I don’t even know what to search for, because I don’t know what kind of guide you are talking about. I really don’t know what else to do, and I’ve tried so much stuff in the past that I can’t even remember all the things I’ve tried. One time I did something to try to kill Pulse Audio and it completely borked my entire Mint install.

Sorry, but I really don’t feel like searching in the Ubuntu/Mint documentation, Google is your friend here. You should be looking for something called “pro audio tuning guide for ” and double check with the list of what youve already done. On Arch here’s where I would start: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Pro_Audio

But if you’ve already gone through the RT limits stuff and the audio group, there’s probably anther issue. From your description, it really sounds like something randomly sucking ressources…

Another idea: since you’re not set on a particular distro, maybe it would be worth checking the pre-made stuff:

http://libremusicproduction.com/articles/advantages-choosing-audio-orientated-linux-distribution

Giving a shot to the AV Linux live image won’t cost much time and could possibly save you some grey hairs :wink:

Well it’s not a notebook, it’s plugged into a port that’s directly on the motherboard and not one of the ones in the front of the machine.

I asked about the guide because I didn’t even know what kind of guide you meant. Just a general pro audio guide for my distro? I haven’t found anything like that for Mint but I did find documentation for pro audio on Ubuntu and I have tried in vain to find my answer in it. Saying google is my friend doesn’t help me here, I know how to use Google and I don’t shy away from it by any means. It’s not like I haven’t tried reading relevant audio information for my distro, it’s that I’ve done that it just doesn’t work, and I haven’t been able to figure out why. From all the information I have been able to find, everything I have done should have been enough for it to just work. But obviously it doesn’t, so it’s probably going to take a deeper understanding of how audio on Linux works to troubleshoot it and figure out why.

I don’t think it’s sucking resources, but I’ll check.

I have tried some of the audio distros and I just didn’t like them. By which I mean the desktop environment. And for some reason I couldn’t even figure out how to change the desktop environment. Every other distro I have ever tried it was a simple as installing it and selecting it from the log in screen, but that selection just wasn’t there, and it felt like I would be breaking something that was set up specifically for the distro to try to force it. I’d rather figure out what’s causing my problem and fix it, so in the future I can have the rest of my distro be just the way I want it.

It is true I’m not dead set on a distro yet, and I may give Arch a go. It may be the most complicated to set up, but to it’s credit it has one really important thing going for it: it appears to have hands down the best documentation of any distro I have ever seen. Its wiki is gloriously detailed, even if I don’t always understand the details I’m reading.

Hell, I’m even using renoise on Nixos.

Sorry for the google thingy, I didn’t mean to be pedantic.

Regarding the Arch documentation, I couldn’t agree more: I came there many years ago because I consistently ended up finding on their wiki the solution to my Debian problems :wink:

But before spending a few quality hours installing and tuning Arch (which may or may not be your cup of tea in the end), you should really give a try to one of the audio distros and focus only on the audio performance, not on the DE, at least not at this stage.

If you quickly set up one and get consistent performance across reboots, then you know the issue is with your SW setup, not your hardware.

As for the desktop environement, a matter of taste. But for audio or anything that requires high perf. like games, less is usually better.

In my experience all DEs suck valuable system resources and can indeed cause inconsistent performance. Eye candy and performance usually don’t mix well…

If the distro you choose has a proper package management system you should have at least a few full blown desktop environements or window managers to choose from. If you really want to go minimal and give up on eye candy search for things like fluxbox, openbox, windowmaker, etc…Then it is a matter of telling your session manager which one to use on startup and remove anything you don’t need.

One more thing, just to be sure: in an earlier post you mention a collection of virtual machines. You’re not trying real time audio inside a vm, right?

It’s true I could try an audio distro just to confirm whether or not it’s a problem with the setup. I’ll probably do that.

I don’t think my problem is with the desktop environment. That is one of the many things I have tried to rule out. The problem persists in an OpenBox session. I actually quite like OpenBox minimalist type of environments. I just didn’t like whatever came with KXStudio, which is the audio distro I’ve spent the most time with. I run Mint with OpenBox on my Netbook to great effect, but I don’t try to use my interface on that obviously.

I’m not trying to do this in a VM, no, I just use VM’s to experiment with different distros before I install one to hard metal. I have a whole separate ssd I install Linux on ultimately. I dual boot with completely separate ssd’s rather than partition one, and then I have more drives yet for mass storage.

You probably borked mint trying to remove pulseaudio because it is a dependency of most of the DEs mint comes with. That said, pulseaudio shouldn’t really be causing you too much trouble these days, especially when you can bridge it easily with cadence.

Putting openbox in to KXstudio should be very simple, I don’t know why you might have a problem logging in to it with that but it can’t be hard to fix and falkTX is always helpful in the forum or irc, just ask him if all else fails.

Resource monitor shows very low resource usage. CPU’s are steady at 2-3%, RAM is at 1.3 GB. Input from interface is bitcrushed, but for the moment playback of samples is fine. That’s one of the random things I run into. Sometimes it’s just input, sometimes it’s everything, sometimes it’s nothing and it’s fine but then isn’t fine later for no descernable reason.

edit: Ok I have my memlock at unlimited now, still bitcrushed input.

Thought maybe I’d just try following this: http://libremusicproduction.com/answer/i-am-running-ubuntudebian-how-do-i-update-kxstudio-without-having-do-reinstall

and I get

“Failed to fetch http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-team/kxstudio/ubuntu/dists/vivid/main/binary-i386/Packages 404 Not Found”

http://kxstudio.sourceforge.net/Repositories

Now I’m having a problem with it that I’m too tired to even explain atm, I honestly think I’m going to blow the whole install away this weekend and start it from scratch.

The problem has to be tackled step by step.

I’m just in process tuning a new xubuntu box. Did basically things I mentioned above to get it more audio-stable. Nvidia drivers and CPU-reclocking were real bad bitches this time. I’ve also noticed my old m-audio pci card is besides better sound quality much more stable and reliable than the hda intel onboard chip.

I’d really advise to install and test jack/qjackcontrol to try to find the problem. I think I remember you’ve tried to use pure alsa until now? Though a sporadic “bitcrushed” (what does it sound like for real? can’t tell what’s going on like this) output would rather speak for driver issues. These can often be circumvented with special sound settings (easier to find out in jack, also watching the logs) or manipulation of the way the drivers work. Other stability issues would rather work like you’d rather get slightly garbled output when dsp load above certain point or graphics card is working out something, or little dropouts/clicks now and then - the jack xrun counter is a good measure for such. If it really sounds like some bad bitcrushing distortion but is xrun-stable otherwise, there could be problems like 24bit content interpreted as 16bit (or other way round), or something similliar.

I second that: try with jack/qjackctl for easier troubleshooting (if not for production).

Now I remember running also into that bitcrushing thing from time to time with my previous sound card (TAPCO Link USB) - there was no xrun visible and I eventually got rid of it by fiddling empirically with jack settings: sample rate, bit depth and RT settings (I think memlock was the culprit).

If no success, please post more info about your HW config + system & jack settings - maybe there’s sth obvious that we missed…

The Libre Music article is outdated. Correct links are on the KX Studio page (as mentioned earlier):

https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/+archive/kxstudio/+files/kxstudio-repos_8.2.3%7Ekxstudio1_all.deb

OK, I see why - the .deb is correct but indeed not the link on the site.

For some reason they renamed the group from “kxstudio-team” to “kxstudio-debian” in launchpad - hence the broken the url(s).

The vivid repo with the meta-packages can be found there:

http://ppa.launchpad.net/kxstudio-debian/kxstudio/ubuntu/dists/

and updated instructions:

https://launchpad.net/~kxstudio-debian/+archive/ubuntu/kxstudio

I’ve tried to use Linux before, because I like the idea of it, but have always given up after a fair amount of effort because something just didn’t work. I’ve effectively spent years learning to use Windows, and I frankly don’t want to invest the same amount of time in learning Linux. Also, my Windows/Renoise combo is pretty reliable most of the time.

Having just played a set, though (luckily just a house party) where I began having serious problems for reasons I still haven’t figured out, I want to ask: would it be easy to set up a dedicated machine, running Renoise on Linux, that would support my soundcard and MIDI controllers (mixer, keyboard) and perform well? If it were absolutely reliable, on a moderately powerful laptop, I’d be willing to sacrifice my lovely VSTs. If I could consider it a piece of hardware not requiring frequent updates and trust it to perform, that would be worth it – if all that could be done without me spending more than a few hours setting it up, perhaps by using a dedicated distro.

What do you think? Realistic? Or should I stick with the devil I know?

Having just played a set, though (luckily just a house party) where I began having serious problems for reasons I still haven’t figured out, I want to ask: would it be easy to set up a dedicated machine, running Renoise on Linux, that would support my soundcard and MIDI controllers (mixer, keyboard) and perform well?

It would be very easy, choose one of the dedicated audio distros, either kxstudio or avlinux, NOT UBUNTU OR MINT (these are not very stable despite being ‘new user friendly’ distros). Choosing one of these two means that you don’t need to worry about tweaking the system to optimize it or messing around getting jack to work or anything like that. All tweaks will be ready made and all tools already installed, with the exception of renoise. If you have particular requirements and want to dig in to the technical side of linux then by all means choose another distro but you’re only making things more complicated and if you just want a stable base to replace Windows then there’s no reason not to choose one of these audio distros.

As far as whether your soundcard and midi controllers are supported or not it’s a different matter. If they are class compliant then most likely they will be supported but it is something you can check. What have you got?

As for perform well, yes most certainly. I have no problems with performances, renoise playing through jack is extremely solid and stable, I would definitely play live with it if that was my thing. Occasionally a plugin can be problematic but this is rare and obvious pretty quickly. This is one area where I would recommend kxstudio, the developer regularly patches plugins or programs as necessary and is very responsive to any kinds of problems like that.

If it were absolutely reliable, on a moderately powerful laptop, I’d be willing to sacrifice my lovely VSTs. If I could consider it a piece of hardware not requiring frequent updates and trust it to perform, that would be worth it – if all that could be done without me spending more than a few hours setting it up, perhaps by using a dedicated distro.

What do you think? Realistic? Or should I stick with the devil I know?

You wouldn’t necessarily need to sacrifice your VSTs, you can run something like airwave. Most VSTs that I’ve tried work well but you have to remember this is basically a reverse engineered wrapper for windows so it isn’t 100% reliable, things that work in it tend to work well and reliably but not everything does work in it. It is getting better all the time though and most big name plugins work.

You don’t have to worry about frequent updates, in fact there’s nothing to require you to update at all but this isn’t really recommended. Choosing something which isn’t a rolling release would mean you only get security or critical updates. However, if it is just a audio workstation then you don’t have to do any updates in theory. With distros such as the ones I mentioned you would generally only get updates to improve things though they’re both fairly conservative in this respect. I think avlinux is based on an older, slower updating, more ‘stable’ base but kxstudio has a much more knowledgeable and proactive developer who wrote quite a few of the tools himself.

I think you should go for it, it is completely realistic. The problem most people have is that they install ubuntu or mint and run in to all sorts of problems because not only are they new to linux, they are new to linux audio (which is a slightly different paradigm), plus they are running software with configurations not ideally suited to what they want to do. Of course you can tune them and work out the problems but lots of people don’t have the time or patience to bother and just give up. I’m not a programmer or anything like that and made the move and I will never go back so I’m not going to tell you to stick to the devil you know, I consider it harmful at best.

A few hours would be more than enough to get going. The only thing I can see that might cause you stumble in this window of time would be get to know the audio system in linux, understanding what jack is and what you can do with it, but really if you just want to get renoise up and running then you don’t have to worry much about that at first.

By the way, you shouldn’t think too much about ‘sacrificing’ anything. Linux actually have some extremely impressive tools. Zynaddsubfx is an incredibly powerful synth and sounds amazing, even if the UI isn’t the greatest. We have Tunefish, another great synth, Dexed, Tal Noisemaker, U-he synths (zebra, diva, ace etc), obxd, Discodsp stuff, overtoneDSP plugins which are absolutely beautiful, Loomer’s stuff. Even though renoise doesn’t let you use LV2 plugins yet you can still use them with the help of Carla which has a VST plugin so you can load that up in renoise and inside it load up any plugins of any format and even create your own crazy routing inside it. Carla also allows you to run windows vsts inside it too, as well as sf2, sfz and gig file formats.

Go for it, if you need any help then people are always around, on irc (#opensourcemusicians or #kxstudio on freenode) or linuxmusicians.com or just send a pm.

Renoise-User since day one. Renoise Linux user since one year. Doing VST with renoise since a week. :slight_smile:

On KXStudio on Ubuntu I’ve been using Renoise and Ardour (http://ardour.org/) linked via Jack. For session management I was using QJackCtl, but on I’m finding Claudia (from kxstudio) handier, but less powerful.

Mainly I’m using LADSPA plugins via KXStudio, but I’ve one Windows VST (http://photosounder.com/splineeq/) which works happily via Wine and a DSSI bridge.

It was quite a learning curve to get my M-Audio FastTrack Pro to work on Linux (had to add some parameters in /etc/modprobe.d/ see below), but now I’m quite happy with it.

Someone mentioned difficulties getting Pulseaudio to work with Jack. That too was a frustrating learning curve (also see below), but is now stable here - with the caveat that when Jack borks, I have to kill Pulseaudio (which then automagically restarts) and then Firefox needs to be restarted if I want sound from the web (another Pulseaudio client, Audacious, doesn’t need restarting).

8<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ cat /etc/modprobe.d/fasttrack.conf

0x01 : use the device_setup parameter, always needed

0x02 : enable digital output (channels 3,4)

0x04 : use 48kHz-96kHz sampling rate, 8-48 kHz if not used

0x08 : 24bit sampling rate

0x10 : enable digital input (channels 3,4)

options snd_usb_audio vid=0x763 pid=0x2012 device_setup=0x9 index=9 enable=1

8<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ cat ~/.pulse/default.pa
load-module module-native-protocol-unix

Use Jack by default

load-module module-jack-sink channels=2
load-module module-jack-source channels=2
set-default-sink jack_out
set-default-source jack_in

#load-module module-alsa-sink channels=2
#load-module module-alsa-source channels=2
#load-module module-null-sink
load-module module-udev-detect
load-module module-stream-restore
load-module module-rescue-streams
load-module module-always-sink
load-module module-suspend-on-idle

Don’t use onboard soundcard

set-card-profile alsa_card.pci-0000_00_1b.0 off

load-module module-switch-on-connect

8<---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

$ cat ~/.pulse/daemon.conf
default-sample-format = float32le
default-sample-rate = 48000
realtime-scheduling = yes
exit-idle-time = -1

The Monotreme Goat are you using qjackctl or cadence for jack management? I don’t all that is necessary with cadence, you should just be able to use the cadence UI to bridge PA to jack permanently.

@Meef Thanks for that.

I’m using claudia, which seems to share its Jack UI with cadence?

When I was figuring out how to configure PA to play nicely with Jack, I’d not even heard of KXStudio!

I’ve just tried “killall -9 jackdbus” to see how cadence handles PA connexions to Jack sinks upon catastrophic Jack failure. It still requires manual intervention, but at least it’s a button click, which is rather more obvious than killing PA, and presumeably has fewer side-effects!

Again, thank you :slight_smile: