I’m all for everything that makes Renoise more powerful, can’t see any problem with adding stuff as long as it doesn’t break what we already have. All the features in the world won’t happen in one update though, i don’t think even taktik is able to make cubase over night and put it inside Renoise.
Who cares what we call Renoise, it’s a sofware for making music. It’s digital, it does audio and you could definately consider it a workstation. It’s also a tracker.
When i was hyping that “modern demo tracks” I didnt suppose that we talk about just native solution. I dont think about Renoise as a all-in-one. And I dont think it about other daw neither. And I dont think that it is any problem for promo. Tracktion5 doesnt have any plugin coming with it but it is promoted more than Renoise. I though we were talking about - i will use renoise with plugins (paid or free one, there are free that are absolutelly top notch), i will make beautiful track, record how i work and upload it to the youtube :].
Bit_Arts is right about quality of internal DSP but on the other hand there are standards like waves, psp, fabfilter, soundtoys etc. Almost everybody who stoled Fl Studio (these people make hype) stoled also some of these plugins. And who bought it, he maybe tries to learn internal fl plugins. But as i said, even there are fl studio demo native tracks, if you watch some producer videos almost everybody open fl studio, then sylenth 1 or nexus and then make mix with stolen fabfilter and ozone :-D. This is something what can be made in Renoise very well.
“Full featured daws” cost a lot of money, so you can buy Renoise + Toneboosters or Melda Pack instead and i believe that you have better solution than just any daw with its internal plugins. People who make promo doesnt think about quality of internal plugins so much when we have vsti they think about its originality.
A lot of people you think too deep, much more weird and specific software get better promo than Renoise. 2.x was talked much more because magazines mentioned it…
Btw. i am on linux now, so i have renoise connected to mixbus, this setup cost me about 80$ beautiful 
True for sure. And it’s completely fine and a good thing, when those people are satisfied with what they got with Renoise. Seriously. The thread went out of control and from requirements for commercial EDM productions escalated again to “Let’s talk about Renoise in general”. That was at least not MY intention, because we’ve had those discussion again and again and again. And I’m tired of this myself. Discussions about tracker or piano-roll and similar stuff don’t make any sense in this context at all and I have no idea, why ppl are bringing this up here. My origin entry posting was not “Renoise is shit”, but “not meeting native requirements for a genre”. Just to remind some people.
That’s one of the questions, that fits the discussion. You can probably do that indeed. Not for every track within a production, but for quite a lot. But how much of a demo of the Renoise capabilities is this? Demonstrating “You have to preprocess everything, because Renoise can’t do those things itself.” isn’t exactly the goal of a demo, I guess. Or imagine you’d buy some DAW because of listening to its Demos and after a while realize “It was all fake.”. Nah, no go… That’s not showing capabilities, it’s hiding them.
Well, a lot depends on the specific gerne someone’s heading for. While instruments easily could become a problem, they don’t have to. An intelligent choice of the genre is essential. A decent Trance production would (instrumentwise) require way more resources (either CPU or memory), than a complextro prodution. I see the real lacks in reverbs, compression, limiting, saturation.
Of course not. See first paragraph.
It was just a reaction to the whole Tracker->Demoscene->Alternative music association chain. So, this part of my response wasn’t supposed to add to the original issue.
I agree.
Was just an example and could have been any other. Didn’t even remember who came up with this. You know I usually appreciate your opinion pretty much. 
Are we married now? 
you’re right actually. i can see kids rushing out to buy a $75 license without even thinking about it if they know that big name x uses renoise. i guess i wasn’t really distinguishing between “throw away” license sales vs. dedicated users. because after they purchased their license, most of those folks would most likely never get into renoise. but at that point, who cares…the devs already have what amounts to be their donation. but yes, folks that hang out on the forum a lot would have to deal with them. no thanks!
Gosh imagine that, a bunch of self entitled people always moaning but never satisfied… I’m so glad we don’t have anything like that around here then
Yo , see that you also have an op-1 .;
I can’t import the op-1in renoise (which are modified aiff files+metadata ) on win xp .sp2
Care to help a fellow renoiser ?
Vv had a good point about sequencer…
Renoise claims to be a DAW. And with all critics I personally have, I don’t doubt a second it is a DAW. Just because there are some problems it’s not a solution to put it into some other category. That’s just childish.
Renoise has it’s problems with DSPs and a few other things, FL has its problems with a patchwork UI and a mixer beyond sense. I’m currently working with FL only and it’s a pure pain in the ass to me. The workflow in comparison to Renoise is a desaster, but soundwise its native capabilities are way better. In Reaper I hated the installtion of Python and scripts, the setup of instruments as FX and I’m quite sure there are issues in each and every other DAW. So please grow up and stop acting like Renoise needs to be defended at any costs, just because some critics come up. This meanwhile appears a bit like kindergarden. Renoise itself is grown up enough to stand critics. Hopefully one day also all its users are.
Well, get the best of both:Slave Renoise to FL, use FL for mixing and fx 
If this is how a marriage ceremony works then i guess so. My mother is going to be so proud, now she doesn’t worry if her son is gay anymore…you are a girl aren’t you? Maybe i should have checked your female parts before jumping into this. 
Let’s sum up :
“advertising” renoise means making it more “popular” that it is actually. Advertising renoise, not only means to know the market that could buy it, but also, trying to understand why and how this market could grow and be larger than what it is actually.
We thought about the market of musicians that would want to make music with the help of their computers and with the help of a DAW. This market is composed of a huge population of very different people with very different expectations. We thought about the reasons why renoise is a bit less popular than other daw softwares (like FL studio for example).
Some easy explanations came then :
We can also ask ourselves " why " Renoise doesn’t have more “value” in the eyes of every musician that try it. You know that people that are buying won’t follow all the time the same logic. Some people only buy expensive products because they believe that equation : expensive = quality products. Considering the “value”, we can say that defining a too low “price” for a a software that is able to be better than more expensive solutions, creates a false or wrong perception of the product. If a product is better than another, it should not get a too lower price. Because, it’s a shame but, in the head of some consumers, a product that is better is always more expensive, than the product that is not the best. It’s like cars. You can build a rolls royce and sell it as it was a tata motors. And when something that is “too cheap”, means that it is a “low cost” solution, with a low quality components, with lacks of support, an unreliable, limited, and easily broken product. And what’s dramatic is that Renoise has absolutely no common point with that and that is an extremely reliable product that offers a very fast way to achieve your ideas. So selling a product with such a low price paradoxically lower the image of the product and the desire to get it.
Well, i just said that he had a point. Not that he was right or wrong or that you were either. Maybe he didn’t elaborate so much and I can see why.
But it is worth pointing out that renoise is strong on the sequencing side of DAWishness, whatever a DAW is defined as now. So is FL. Neither are so great on the virtual tape deck side of things. Most DAWS that are such are not such great sequencers, either. For me anyway. Sucks, ya know?
I’m one of those that came to Renoise from a ‘pro’ DAW. First, Opcode’s Studiovision Pro (very oldskool, and I considered myself a ‘guru’ in it) and then tried (for too long) to migrate to Logic (I never really got off the ground…too ‘big’, separate modules for everything, the more time I spent with it the less time I wanted to spend with it). While I’d heard about trackers since the 90’s, it wasn’t clear to me what the distinction between trackers and daws was (and I don’t really care). Being someone with a degree in Music, and using pencil and paper to write out scores at the time, SVP was the first, and for me best, implementation of linear layout with sampling. Everything, samples, midi notes, cc data, could be visualized in one window if necessary, or in separate tracks, as needed, or even a list view. Logic, and other daws like it have since metastasized into overwrought environments, often trying to model the recording console ever more precisely, where capabilities may have grown, but navigation and simultaneous data-visualization of different types have tended to suffer.
For me, it all boils down to workflow. Whether its vertical visualization or horizontal visualization or whatever is beside the point if the tool helps me get real-time control over sounds, and lets me get my ideas down quickly. That’s what brought me to Renoise. I stumbled across it completely by accident, but was immediately struck by its…immediacy, which I was missing in Logic. Renoise is the first daw to come around (that I’m aware of) that has the promise of giving me back the immediacy I enjoyed with my old-skool SVP with the ability to still do note-level editing. The emphasis on keyboard-driven operation was also an attraction, as I’ve always used macros to automate as much as possible, so I knew Renoise was something I needed to investigate. Tool extensions completely sold me (just bought a Launchpad to get into Live Dive and Duplex). And I haven’t been disappointed yet.
Lastly, Renoise (for me) has the promise of being both a compositional as well as a live-performance tool. Not many daws can lay claim to that…at $75 bucks a pop, no less. I’m still a beginner in Renoise, but the fact that I’m still excited to explore what it can do means a lot. Its keeping me in the game when I could just as well do something else with my (limited) time. Whatever these devs are smokin, I’m diggin the results!
Of course I am a girl. I can be anything you want me to be. 
Maybe after I really got into all the corners of FL. Still have to learn a whole lot, find out a lot of things and get used to a lot of things. And then I’ll probably combine some things.