Will I Ever Reach My Goal....

General Discussion
1

Okay…
Been making music for about seven years. Mostly trance.
Started out with FT2 ,but the music i made there was purely experimental.
I tried to make some songs ,but they were either
to bad to even listen to or
they were almost copies of my brothers original.
After 2 years of FT2 experiments i found other
music programs like Fruityloops ,but to be honest…
It wasn`t the thing for me. I managed to make one song
after about a week and it was acctually not bad.

One of the things with FL is that it offers no tracker interface.
You have to either use a midi keyboard or mouseclicks wich takes a LOT of time.
(One thing that i loved about FL is the voice thing :P )

It is propably a good program ,but i decided to go back to a tracker.
Madtracker came and i was back making tracked songs…
Madtracker was very much the same as FT2
and i jused it for a long time.
I made about a hundred songs with madtracker more or less.
Still just experimental…
Many sounded just like the ones i had made before…
Songs being to alike has allways been one of my problems.

The melodies aren`t bad ,but when the same samples are jused over and over again ,the songs become one…

Okay so now i have made a hundred songs that sound alike and i
find out about another tracker. This time it`s Skaletracker.
I try it and realize its almost a copy of Madtracker so i go back to madtracker.
So i juse Madtracker for a while until some guy tell me about a new
tracker.

Renoise Yeehaa :D
When i got the demo installed i became a full time nerd if thats the way to put it :yeah:
I got fascinated by the plugins like reverb and delay.
I have made about 25 or 30 songs with Renoise …

I will soon come to my point so stay tuned :D

I burned a CD of songs and played them in my class and they loved it.
but after a while one said to me that they were “good to be homemade”

That is acctually not a compliment to me :P

I wanted to make better songs. I wanted them to sound like
the trance we all listen to. I heard about another software.
Propellerheads Reason…
I cracked it (Yeah yeah like im the only bad guy! ! ! )

As i entered the program i didnt understand squat. I tried to read about the program until i got the hold of it ,but to use it to make songs i needed a midi keyboard. Making songs with the mouse would probably have taken the rest of my life. I went back to Renoise and yesterday i installed 1.5 and found out about VSTs (lol! About time)

I got a lot of samples. From the net and from my first sample bank in FT2.
I have the samples. I have the program.
I have the time. ,but still i rush songs.

Im 17 years old and its propably odd that i acctually bother writing this looong text.

I tried to take my time at each song ,but after 2 days the song was finished!

I spit out hundreds of songs ,but there isnt one that im proud of yet. I havent even worked on a song for a week. I juse either one or two days.

I rush every song i make. The songs become shallow and the only
good thing is the melodies. Thats the thing im satisfied about.

My goal is making trance. Trance that draws a audience.
Not a thousand songs that are “good to be homemade”!

All i need is one badass trance…

Anyone else have my problem? Or has had?

( FT2 Rulez! Renoise Rulez even more B) )

2

not the software is responsible for the music a musician can make …

and … hey … you are 17 … you are so young!

I’m making music since 15 years … and only in the last couple of years I reached the point of self-confidence to thinking for myself: ok - I’m a musician - I’m not bad - my music sounds great and my musical work is professional …

it can be a long way … don’t give up … and don’t measure the quality of your songs by the words of class mates …

just my 2 cents …

3

Wasted 7 years? No way… You seem to have pretty much experience for being so young, and experience is important.

Take it easy, listen to your “finished” song once again and eventually you’ll notice the flaws. If you can’t find out for yourself… Well, just ask that person that “criticized” your music, what exactly you could improve.

Me personally are not aiming to make professional sounding trance music though, that would be a waste of time, as there already are a lot of it out there. I’ll try to make something original.

And yes, move this to the Off Topic forum.

4

I started about the same age you did and I’m 33 now… I’m now getting really comfortable but I’m still looking for faster ways to get songs from my head into the computer or to get an even better sound. A true artist is never finished at least that is what I believe… Just hang in there you will reach a point where it will pay off! With everything you do there’s a short period you experience a sort of blackout, you mess up things, you want to quit but this a fase where it becomes a part of you… Take driving lessons for example. After 13 lessons I suddenly didn’t know what to do and if I did it right… From there after 2 or 3 lessons it became a sort of second nature and know I do not even think about it anymore and I just drive and I love it… Just drive!

5

I really have thought many times about what I just made was the best I could do, until next time, when the new song sounded better etc. It takes a long time to master all the aspects of making (electronic) music, because you have to get some experience in stuff like good composition, choosing the right samples, doing the right EQ, applying the right ammount of compression etc.

What I could recommend is to buy a good book about mixing in general or studio / mastering techniques. There are some basic rules which you should now which applies to (almost) all styles of music, and you can master those techniques by practice, practice, practice. Then you can let your music sound way better just by the right mixing.

What I also recommend is to have good speakers, or at least a very good headphones. Listen to other tracks of other artists which you really like and try to analyze why you like that sound.

And indeed, what the others say : You are still very young and you have a lot of experience already, so there is no 7 years wasted, you already have 7 years experience!

6

here’s my personal 11 years (17-28 years) experience:

I’ve literally “discovered” music when I was 16: until then, I never had interest into music, nor my father helped me to discover it. I wrote little funny poems, but that was all.

In some months, I felt I wanted to make my own compositions, then I found trackers (Startrekker on Amiga). I made pure crap songs with the same samples for almost two years, with no knoledge and no example songs.

With time, i developed my own style, starting from experimental dance music, with odd tempos, to present orchestral progressive rock.

Looking at my songs page, you can clearly notice another thing: in 1996, I released 19 songs, while in 2004 I released 5 songs. Now I reckon that those early songs were just a bare image of what I had in mind. I still have some idea of what I wanted to do at that time, and it’s clear how I was unsable to express it fully.

Now I have much less spare time, so I release less, but it’s also because I put a lot more care into making songs, and this is what I can suggest to you: release less, don’t feel pushed, take your time, and your songs will also have more variations and be more different from one to one, and they will describe all the emotions you felt during the time of composition.

7

I agree with wen, proper mixing and mastering can make wonders, especially in dance music styles… If you make your trance with multimedia speakers or hifi speakers and if you dont know how to mix/master your tracks properly then there is no way you will get professional sounding stuff out of your computer and out of your homestudio.

secondly: are those 7 years wasted? well… thats the question to only you know the answer. :) But i think if you still feel passion for music making and have fun while making it then they are not wasted at all. We all feel lack of inspiration and some emptyness from time to time, this is normal. And man, you are just 17 years old for crist sake :w00t:

EDIT: maerteijn beat me to it :)

8

Do not put yourself under this pressure. There are really a lot of professional tracker-freaks here and they all started the way you did.

Most of them hate their older works, because of the knowledge about mastering and melodies, they earned in a long period of time…

There is only ONE track by myself, I like to listen to, regularly.

I have been watching the trackerscene for more than 15 years now and there are many artists that changed their style dramatically. Skaven and Purple Motion of Future Crew do not make the music anymore like they did in Second Reality.

I made stuff that sounded like Dr. Alban and DJ Bobo a while ago.

I even know a guy who produces fantastic DnB-Tracks on Reason but nobody (except me) likes his music, because the mastering is so screwed up, that it is really difficult to hear the fine aspects of his work. He even masters his music way more bad than me.

9

imho … maybe “hate” is the wrong word.

if I speak for myself I would say: i’m no longer interested on a song if the song is finished. so sometimes it was hard to play a song again and again live on stage ;) …

but after years, I’m sometimes amazed what i’ve done years ago. it’s not like the quality today but … it’s my own musical history and i can accept my musical state of the past … and sometimes it’s funny too ;)

10

Dammit! I listen to Dj Addams vs Dj Rippers “Give it up”…
It makes me want to make trance right away so i sit down and try my best ,but the result is bad…

Im stuck! I cannot decide wether Renoise is the program for me or even if music is one of my skills… Depressed? Yeah! :blink:

Any DJ`s out there who can give me some tips on how they make their trance?

Ive made one song that im quite satisfied with…
Still something is missing from it. Like all my songs.

I guess the trance that for example Tiesto make is
impossible to make in a tracker or would take years to complete…
I dont want to publish DjD`s Forever today when im 70 years old!

Maybe i should buy myself a Midi keyboard or something?

Sorry to bother you guys with my problems…
It just feels like im stuck.

I cant take a brake cause im afraid i will loose precious time and
become 30 before my first song is published…
( Nothing bad to be 30 btw :) :rolleyes: )

11

i think your approach to making music is the wrong one.
that’s basically the reason for why your music does not satisfy you.
your impatience kills creativity and strengthens desperation.
you can’t force certain things to happen in no time - tiesto did certainly not write anything similar to his nowadays stuff when he was 17.
you cannot expect to start using renoise for a few days, throw some samples in and measure up with professional artists that have worldwide success.

and renoise, the program itself, is definately able to mirror the high quality sound of nowadays “trance-super-stars”.
it just depends on a few conditions:

  1. do you use expensive hardware (synths/fx units) & software (VST(i)) gear and are NOT limited by money whilst deciding about purchases? - tiesto does.
  2. is you sample-pool individual and diversified? - tiesto’s is.
  3. do you have a couple of chicks around which are all pretty decent at singing cheesy stuff into a mic? - tiesto has.
  4. do you know a lot about mastering and own the required tools to make it sound really " phat " ? - well, tiesto does or at least knows somebody who does.

if all that would apply to you and you’d really KNOW things you do concerning renoise, music in general and mastering, then it would definately be no problem to write down highly professional stuff with our beloved tracker, because the HOST is not limiting you soundquality- or creativity-wise.
and it’s simply not true that such music is highly complicated or time-consuming to write in a tracker like renoise.
if you’d say classical music or soundtrack stuff would be hard to do in renoise, i’d certainly agree.
but definately not trance…

so i can only say it again… you’re trying to rush things and force yourself to be like a superstar you seem to like and when you fail imitating him, you get frustrated.
i can only recommend to make up your own mind about music and do not try to copy someone else, or you’ll never get satisfied because you’re not expressing yourself, which is important for your own music to stand out from the crowd and sound “special”.

12

Thanks everyone for their replies!
(Wow! A polite 17 year old! :yeah: )

13

You make music Swift?
You seem to know a lot about it.
(Bit strange your unregistrered! :P )

Good suggestions i guess.
I will look into it…

14

Fuqk copying other styles.
Fuqk copying other techniques.
Fuqk being told what to do.
Fuqk aspiring to fit in.
Fuqk creating when you don’t want to.

Be yourself. Do it slow and explore as if you are the first. No other advice suffices (unless you want to conform).

Every year of your life is a beginning. You are in constant genesis. If you want youth fame then you’re in the wrong game. We’re here to test the boundaries, evolve and progress.

Success is only when you be yourself.

15

yes you will reach your goal

16

and what was that goal again? :)

seriously, if you’re serious in composing and willing to learn from mistakes there is no reason not to reach the goal (whatever it may be, not only making great Trance).

Also, with 17 yrs, you cannot comprehend stuff you will be able to comprehend when you’re more older. Also when you’ll a bit older you’ll have more firm attitudes and stop wandering around - this includes the composing as well.

Just like keith303 said: take your time, don’t rush it!

my 2 cents :rolleyes:

17

I forget my password!

But certainly, a new bit of gear can inspire 1000 new ideas and ways of working… A lot of people change their setup and methods regularly, to keep things fresh and to keep from falling into traps of constantly rewriting the same tune…

I like to switch between Renoise and Ableton Live 4, as they both offer such different ways of working…

Re: Foo?

I know what you mean about “fuqk copying other people”, etc… but in this, over-saturated, 6 million net-labels, day and age - It’s very, very difficult to forge a name for yourself without the piggyback effect of starting out quite generic…

It grates on me that most of the best musicians these days get very little exposure - It’s really the producers who make very generic music, but do it very well, who have the advantage of already having a vast, world-wide audience who will have an opportunity (every opportunity) to hear their work.

And this stepping-stone is how most of today’s well known producers have got where they are… Autechre, FSOL, Aphex Twin, all started out making hardcore records… There were many other equally talented ambient and experimental acts from that era who never made their mark on the scene at the time, and who simply dissappeared…

Shpongle obviously wouldn’t be where he is today without his Hallucinogen work…

Rather than seeing generic music as being unoriginal, I see it (now) as a sort of initiation period… A chance to prove your worth by other people’s standards before you go out and forge your own…

18

J Swift:

Personally I can only be satified if I take both approaches at once. But I’ve been composing for over 9 years, so my decision has not come lightly. On one hand, I’ve come to the point where I make deeply weird experimental stuff, directly for the purposes of testing the boundaries of things. That’s why I like exploring things like arc…

At the same time I’m trying my skills at ‘pop music’ - but I guess you could say my own dark ambient slant on it. I’m perfecting the process of regular tight short song structures with lots of vocal melody. I do want to earn a place on the commercial market, in the way that you hint at. Once you get the name up there, it gives you licence to go fcuking insane.

To recommend this approach to our 17 year old friend would be a hinderance for him. He clearly needs major exploration and patience. He must earn his confidence. Only then will his anxiety of his future will dissappear.

Getting things like money, sex, and ego bloating mixed up with your goals of music will only destroy your inherent powers originality. Satification should come from the creation itself (and perhaps the performance as well). Having set my goals to include ‘pop’ I do so mostly as an internal challenge, rather than groping at some lofty chance at salvation.

19

Certainly - I think it all comes down to balance - As does everything in life!

As for money, sex and ego - Well, these days you can count the number of electronic musicians on one hand who’ve got that! And why not throw in hiphop, rock and metal while you’re at it!?

Most of the top Trance producers are only making a modest wage, at best(!) - There’s one or two who have that mainstream cross-over - But the real key players are only really shifting units to DJ’s or on compilation CD’s.

Great way to spend your time though - Great to be a part of a progressive movement in modern music - And great to be able to make any money out of that…

But I think to get people listening you do have to be on the pulse and put the grafting in for a good few years first… We all learn through immitation of course - In any art - From painting to writing to photography… I think if anything, I think you tend to find bigger ego’s on mp3.com than on Richard James’ Minidisc player…

Maybe humility and conformity are just things we all have to endure to ever get beyond a cult following…

20

@Phazze…(One of the starters of Renoise)…

As far as i can understand, you havn´t been working on Renoise for some, atleast you havnt been around the forum for some time?
Seing you here does it mean you might get back? :D