Y'olde Linux Vs Windows Flamewars..

I’ve taken the linux vs windows element out of the renoise in Linux discussion as it doesn’t really belong there so i just continue right here:

I agree very well with you that Windows is not based upon honest business since day one (read this for your own information: http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_8.html ) but what i actually try to say is not that i would like to defend Windows but to press on the things that matter for most windows users to step over to Linux which is that it currently is way to cumbersome when it comes to the next step after it has been installed and running.

Actual computer noobs would find any platform cumbersome but this does not mean that simple tasks should become a whole quest asking hours of your time even for the more experienced users.

Just face the fact that Microsoft has indoctrinated people by spoiling them with comprehensive system behavior. People don’t want to RTFM or at least not thick blocks of paperworks that require two hours of attention and concentration just to get your mouse working.

A good example from my own experience, installing Linux on a brand new pc for a client. No problem, this was done very quickly, then i had to install the peripherals:

I spend a whole afternoon just installing Linux printer drivers for a simple MFC-printer from brother and i had to browse various forums and perform various installations methods to have the cups and lpr drivers installed without any errors and when i got that running i still did not figured out why it eventually went okay but happy as it worked out i was not done yet. Some wasting of another few hours were nessesary, trying to undestand why i still couldn’t get it to print to finally figure out i had to manually change the cups config files to let Linux know the right hardware path to the printer to get it going. I had read over 7 different methods to change the cups configuration for that specific brother model only and before i found the actual one that actually helped me out i had to wrestle myself through a lot of copies of the same solution being reposted across several Linux forums around the net. This is even frustrating for me and i can’t believe an average Linux user likes Linux this way…

While Linux may be a lot more stable than Windows and currently not really the center of attention for spyware and malware mobsters, a lot of things are not as obvious as users would expect and if the answer to a problem may be around somewhere online, it is sometimes still seeking for a needle in a haystack. So this whole hardware abstraction method used in Linux is still far from perfect while it could actually be a lot better than windows (considering the fact that Linux has a far better system update foundation frame, driver support could also be as good)

Yes Windows is not something i adore, actually the founders of the Microsoft corp do not have my sole support but they set a tone to the mass that no advanced Linux user can turn:“i want it and i want it now and it does not have to cost me too much energy to get this done”

The mass of people are dumb or/and lazy (excuse me mass of people for my generalising way of stating) and the mass of people determine the biggest marketshare.

I doubt the core Linux community desires the biggest marketshare in the world but i guess they have a whole barnload of STFU for linux noobs that again cry out for the same questions that have been asked over and over again.

So how can this STFU be arranged then? Stealing one idea of Microsoft that doesn’t have copyright: Playing in on the mass-desire by improving the comprehension of Linux and take more manual things out of the hands of the user. Actually it is the most simple solution and the knowledge is over centuries old.

The mass wants an easy solution. Make it, figure out a way of spreading and you get the biggest customer share.

Ketchup is sold more than hot sauce, does that make ketchup better?

Briefly, I once worked in a fortune 500 investment bank with thousands of employees worldwide. The backbone of the company was Linux servers.

Do I use Linux at home? No.

Sorry to hear about your printer problems… but Linux is alive and well and your anecdotal personal experiences doesn’t affect Linux, nor will it ever.

isnt that some kind of selfexplaining?! its a matter of the given context.
when you use it for big calculations only or as visual interface to arrange sounds.

On OS X I’ve had to deal with missing drivers for HP scanner and M-Audio drivers for external sound cards. On windows, I’ve had to deal with missing drivers for motherboard RAID components. I’ve had to buy Windows driver upgrades from HP for which a CD was shipped to me in the mail, no downloadable option at the time. You name it, i’ve had problems with it, on all platforms.

Exactly, and the context will always be: so long as there are open source programmers using linux, for whatever reason, the user base is irrelevant as they can maintain their own OS for their own means.

The open source component is the only part that supplies the strongest hope and keeps Linux alive.

That’s why i hope that someday there will be nothing left to moan about Linux.

I just started this response to that single remark (easier to shit in my pants than just to walk to the toilet) that gives a false sense that the easability of windows seems to be equivalent to a rediculous idea and this is not true.

That all those ideas are stolen from IBM, Apple and whatever other manufacturer is something folks usually forget so those making such remarks are not insulting Microsoft but Apple and IBM and all those other big companies Microsoft stole ideas from.

Not to mention the Linux wars vs Unix which some folks seem to forget as well…

Have a laught at this:

( http://www.bash.org/?106579 )

Topic in #os: hey guyz, stop pickin on irix.
w00t! i bought unix! im gonna b so rich!
/msg atnt haha. idiot.
whoops. was that out loud?
why r u laffin at me?
dude, unix is so 10 years ago. linux is in now.
hey guyz, i bought caldera, I have linux now.
<red_hat> haha, your linux sucks.
no wayz, i will sell more linux than u!
your linux sucks, you should look at SuSE
Ja. Wir bilden gutes Linux für IBM.
can we do linux with you?
Ich bin nicht sicher…
Gut lassen Sie uns vereinigen.

  • SuSE is now SuSE[UL]
  • SCO is now caldera[UL]
    can we play?
    we’re bored… we’ll go too.
  • turbolinux is now turbolinux[UL]
  • conectiva is now conectiva[UL]
    redhat: you should join!
    <SuSE[UL]> Ja! Wir sind vereinigtes Linux. Widerstand ist vergeblich.
    <red_hat> haha. no.
    <red_hat> lamers.
    what about you debian?
    we’ll discuss it and let you know in 5 years.
    <caldera[UL]> no one wants my linux!
    <turbolinux[UL]> i got owned.
    <caldera[UL]> u all tricked me. linux is lame.
  • caldera[UL] is now known as SCO
    i’m going back to unix.
    yeah! want to do unix with me?
    haha. no. lamer.
    hey, u shut up. im gonna sue u ibm.
    yea, you stole all the good stuff from unix.
    <red_hat> lol
    <SuSE[UL]> heraus laut lachen
    shutup. i’m gonna email all your friends and tell them you suck.
    go ahead. baby.
    andandand… i revoke your unix! how do you like that?
    oh no, you didn’t. AIX is forever.
    actually, we still own unix, you can’t do that.
    wtf? we bought it from u.
    whoops. our bad.
    i own u. haha
    ibm: give me all your AIX now!
    whatever. lamer.
  • ibm sets mode +b SCO!@
  • SCO has been kicked from #os (own this.)

Most people also want to drive ridiculous distances and take cheap flights without giving a shit about the consequences, want to be fed entertainment and never, ever think or reflect upon themselves. So what? I don’t think the problem is how to satisfy them, the problem (to me) is how to get RID of them, or at least phase them out; or rather, the people who live off them, the people who want people to stay sheep.

I know this is not realistic, it is arrogant and also stupid in a way, because by that logic, people smarter and less lazy than me could just as well designate me as obsolete. But I can’t lie, this is how I feel, I’m sick of the lowest common denominator. I want to see it crystallize into a huge compound and then be flushed down the toilet, forever.

To me it’s not so much about Linux and the finer points of driver availabilty, it’s about creeping slavery. I don’t even have kids yet and feel threatened already. It’s a mindset. I don’t care wether it manifests in an OS or myspace or advertising that is insulting to any thinking person. I cannot exactly define it, I cannot claim to be free of it, I can’t say I’m efficiently fighting it, but I cannot just let it rest, either.

I’m for Linux support! With every release of Ubuntu, Linux is becoming very easy to use. Imagine me, first time using Linux; I had no problems getting Compiz Fusion to work, nor did I have any problems installing my Bluetooth devices. As for my sound drivers, they were installed automatically upon installation. NOT EVEN WINDOWS HAS BEEN ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THIS. I LOVE UBUNTU! I think the port to Linux is a wonderful idea, just as long as the program does not lose it’s integrity. Why not give the end user the option to decide?

Creeping slavery and your sense of security is something that lives in your mind only.
What lives in your mind is expressed on your face and that is in its turn, food that attracts more of what’s in your mind in real life. So this is the way to make that what’s in your mind, your daily life reality.
You think such things, and you predominately focus upon that (well okay you said you don’t really fight it but it stays on your mind so you don’t give yourself the chance of clearing it from those thoughts) so that is also what you get and ofcourse you shall keep confirming it once it keeps coming.

You can claim to be free the minute you stop wasting your time thinking of that stuff and start to compensate those thoughts for the things that you really want, at least what do you really want in life? Mock about the things you stated before or rather having more enjoyable thoughts in it?
It is just that simple, but it takes a little while before you get adjusted to it.

Well, yes in a way: because there are no absolutes. I am totally dependant on the sun. Does that make me feel “enslaved” (thanks for looking past my harsh choice of words btw)? Nope. Do I even want to be totally independant of everybody? No, that would be sad. But…

Uhm… no? Do you think for example civilians dying of bombs somehow thought these bombs into existance? Yes, especially in social relations what you said is very true. Negative thinking creates negative reality. But saying that goes for everything is simply not true… in fiction maybe, and esoteric literature… but you can’t generally blame the message on the messenger, or the deed on the victim.

Exactly because I want to have enjoyable things in it, I feel the need to confront the unpleasant stuff. It’s not like I’m constantly trying to find problems in a world that is actually perfect…


At the core for the ordinary (windows) consumer, the main thing is that Linux and Mac doesn’t have as much quality software as Windows, which naturally is bad, if all software ran on all OS we would see many people leave Windows. This is why I like the idea for Renoise to be Linux compatible, I hope the big software companies follow suit.

I don’t care what OS i use, but it have to have good software that produce interchangeable documents, it should be intuitive and not look ugly aswell.

With all these new desktops i think it’s time to play with Linux, i will definately try installing Linux now, and with Compiz-Fusion it looks really good, take a peak!

Compiz Fusion Development & Ubuntu 7.10 on Asus Eee PC w/ out-of-the-box Compiz

Happy new year :)

it’s true - try getting linux to play with off shelf laptop wireless / edirol soundcards / find the correct screen resolution / play mp3’s / play wma’s etc without a hell of a lot of faffing around - even installing simple programmes usually means taking a trip down the ol’ cmd prompt lane - once it is up an running then fine - but it’s a bit daunting if you aint a techie

pls ubuntu crashes on start if you turn your wireless button off - if it wasn’t for dual booting i’d be up shit creek