I like that idea.
You can zoom already in Renoise. I am sure most of you do it already anyway…
Example…
-
Change Speed from 6 to 3
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CTRL+,
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Change ‘highlight every xx lines’ from 4 to 8
That works the same as zoom.
It is not scaleable and you can resize and hide stuff, but it works.
the zoom on one note is not good idea i think it will be hell to compose!!
Take the example of the “triolet” (i don t know the name in english)
it sounds like this tatoo toota tatoo toota (the base rythm of irish music)
it’s really easy to compose on x2 grid but hell on zommed notes! you have to open the submenu of each note!
i see the x2 zoom like this
00 C-401
00’ … …
01 … …
01’ C-401
02 … …
etc…
the sequencer of the yamaha rs7000 or rm1x is really great for this
I think this could work well as a lightweight implementation of this feature, without zoom:
Increase the resolution of the delay column and add an additional note end/length column. The latter can work in conjunction with “note off” for notes that end before the next line.
Example:
C-400 56 16 32 … …
^…^…^…^…^
note vol del end effect column
For several notes per line, just add more notecolumns, like this:
C-400 56 16 23 … … | E-400 52 24 30 … …
It can get messy for complex arrangements, but you would at least have all the information about the notes visible at all times, unlike a zoom implementation.
ok i didnt read all the posts, just a few, but i just wondered why ur making it THAT complicated.
I think its quite simple to manage it:
A doubleclick on a note in the pattern editor opens the Sub-Tick Pattern. After some stuff is typed in, the note become a Sqare around itself. If you hover the mouse over the squared Note, you can see/edit the Subtick Notes.
I made a picture to illustrate it:
Which commands work/not work in the subtick pattern is not my business its yours 
Imho there should only the non-critical effects work, so less hazzle with it.
I thought play/stop/loop buttons for this subpattern should be available aswell.
Maybe also a special option -[Show SubPattern by hovering with the mouse [on/off]-
cheers
I think one of the simplest and most intuitive ways to display more resolution would be to simply have a global zoom slider at the side of the pattern, something like
as you see in some other apps.
That’s it. Zooming in would let you see more lines. Zooming out perhaps even a whole long pattern.
And what would make the display of lines nicer would be highlighting of certain lines and “sub lines”. This highlighting would work according to the specified quantize, which could be defined for every track independently. Something I suggested a while ago.
As a matter of fact lines could either be highlighted according to quantize or shown according to quantize, so that you would only see the lines that you need. A concept very similar to the one in Cubase’s “Drum Editor”, look:
Just turn that picture vertically and replace the “diamonds” with C-4, D#4, …
As you see notes can still be anywhere, quantize just helps for the input of notes and for an organized display.
Here’s a quick drawing of how the quantize could be displayed in Renoise:
This is the “hide not needed lines” version. But you could represent quantize also by highlighting certain lines. That one may look nicer…
EDIT1: Just in case someone missed my point with this quantize&speed: My point is that quantize could be very hepful in presenting an organized display when zooming in/out. If you needed a very fine resolution then you’d just select a very fine quantize for that track and zoom in. Then there could always be a reminder (a symbol/some color) that there are some “hidden” notes when you’re zoomed out. But just a reminder, no extra windows, buttons and whatnot… keep it simple.
EDIT2: Added two lines to the picture. These lines are the “reminders”, aka: “you have to zoom in there to see more notes”. Perhaps clicking on a line could also trigger a zoom in. The lines was just a quick idea… the “reminders” could actually look very different.
UPDATE: I don’t think the “reminders” are cool anymore. 
Instead, I’d prefer if the zoomed-out notes were just stacked together, like in Aodix, look:
It makes sense to me, even if it may not look very ‘pretty’. You can at least see approximately how many notes there are and where they are located.
Hey since this brainstorming session is 4 years old and I’d really like to join this conversation, are there any news from the developers about this feature?
edit: meaning, are there still some known problems to be solved before this could be implemented?
Yeah, this is sorta how I’d imagine it as well. With keyboard shortcuts for +/- zoom… and it would be nice if zoom level could be stored into layout presets, so you could access your most useful zoom levels instantly.
real cool idea ermi! i ll vote for this!!
one suggestion, perhaps differing the main issue: there should be a switch for the pattern speed/bpm whether it should affect the synced vst/vsti-s or not. or is there any, and i’m just blind?
n
Song Settings tab → “VST tempo”
Also an additional suggestion on this matter. Perhaps there could be a switch that would divide the tempo sent to the plug-ins and midi equipment by 2 and 4…
i just reviewed this thread, and i think i was sort of missing the point before.
at this point, the way that i understand this would work, is that the ‘speed’ setting would completely disappear and become the ‘zoom’ setting. this is because ‘speed’ in renoise is the number of ticks per row, and in the new paradigm, there is no temporal significance to a ‘line’.
pattern rows would be numbered by beat and rows in between as fractions(decimals) of beats.
since retrigger and delay effects would have to be rethought, could they just be expressed in fractional terms. ie: 0e14 = 1/4th of a beat 0e5f = 5/16ths etc.
with only a single digit to work with for the pattern retrigger command that would be complicated. i suppose it could just have it’s numerator value set to 1. wow, so many gotchas.
this would be a completely different program.
maybe retrigger effect commands and delay would become irrelevant. would be too bad. it’s kind of nice being able to use them instead of having to plot out ever drill hit-by-hit.
Updated my previous post with a picture of ‘zoomed out’ notes in Aodix:
It seems like a nice solution to me. I think it’s better than if all the zoomed out notes were completely hidden. (Maybe it’s been discussed before, I just came across Aodix…)
color coding the content blocks seems like a vital part of implementing zoom like that. that way you get some idea of what the content is, even if you can’t read the code. i guess you’d want the color to correspond to the instrument, though being coded to the note value might also be helpful.
As someone who is fairly new to Trackers I’m just trying to get my head around the concept of the “Speed” setting, so I’m really glad I found this thread.
Coming from a linear sequencer + notation background I don’t see any problem with the current resolution of Renoise, but the “Speed” concept does my head in. I have always been fairly average at maths, so reading this thread took a lot of concentration! 
Am I right that, at the standard setting of Speed=6 LPB=4, one line is the equivalent of a Hemidemisemiquaver (1/64th note)?
What I’d like to do is create a table similar to this one that I created for Reaper:
http://www.cockos.com/wiki/images/9/99/Notation_revised.png
so that new Renoise users from a similar background find it easier to relate to the Pattern.
Can someone tell me what the current maximum resolution (i.e. one 6th of one line) equates to in musical notation?
Cheers,
Malcolm.
the more i use renoise the more im sure that the main thing i want to be changed is the whole way speed/bpm/resolution works.
Id find it so useful to double the working resolution of one track without having to double bpm and expand another. Drum effects, fine timing editing etc etc would all work better with either this or a zoom function.
I love renoise but i dont like having to use workarounds as the rule rather than the exception. Not trying to slag off the tracker heritage but this timing system is not an improvement on the much more establised tweaked and bug fixed system of music theory thats out there.
Oh god that sounded arsey… didnt mean it as such…
I know exactly how you feel. It’s also annoying when you want to sync something to the host tempo.
I don’t mean to sound harsh either, but I’d rather see if the ‘Speed’ was ditched, buried and forgotten altogether. I can only imagine the confusion that it creates to new users, or those new to trackers. If it’s not possible to remove it altogether (for backwards compatibility) at least hide it somewhere. 
Hello I know just what you are talking about… =)
Here is a copy of a posting I made about an idea few days ago…
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Hi,
Just because it seems like it’s going to be a bit longer since renoise can be used in a tighter resolution… perhaps we could have a split bpm box as a substitute?
Most of us use eiher duplicated tempos or BPM’s multiplied by four. So there would not be need for more than a division of 2 or 4 in that box.
I personally find it a bit difficult to use delays or LFO’s in the plug-ins with bpms such as 620 etc. That’s usually because many presets for synths have LFO’s that are tempo synced or delays or other settings that get screwed totally… smile.gif
peace…
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I’d really like to see some kind of solution to this =)
But… loving renoise either way… hope to see this tweaked somewhen…