Add buzz styled sequencing to Renoise

Ideas & suggestions
42

Isn’t that their choice ?
Where does it say in the Renoise sales page that you will have a say in the companies decisions once you purchase ?
You don’t like the direction they are taking, fine, go elsewhere, there is plenty of software. (No not a “Renoise is my religion, get another DAW” attack, i hardly ever use Renoise anymore, it is not a very good DAW in 2014 in my eyes, so that argument is gone)
Some reason you think that moaning non stop will make them change their minds and do everything you want them to do, or are you just moaning non stop for fun ?
Plenty of us don’t like the direction Renoise has gone, but most of us just use other software.
And honestly the stuff i miss from Renoise will be in Redux and i can use it in my main DAW. (Still wondering who will use Redux, or are you just going to ignore this again)

By the way anything upto a 20gb library is actually about normal from a smaller developer, most of those are between $10 - $40 (Please don’t infer that they are inferior because of the lower cost, they just don’t licence the Kontakt player, so price is less)

43

Hilarious.

And then I ‘go somewhere else’ and the ‘somewhere else’ also ignores what their users want, and carries on adding things that most of them don’t want.

All I want is Renoise with a Buzz Sequence Editor. I think you’ll find MOST users would want that. I can guarantee you that IF the devs had produced a Buzz Sequence Editor a few years ago, instead of the Pattern Matrix, and the Pattern Matrix had never existed, NOBODY would be criticising the Buzz Sequence Editor and demanding a ‘Pattern Matrix’-like sequencer…

So your answer is for most of us to stop buying Renoise and let it die? I’d much prefer they add the one simple thing that I want, and that most users would want, and we all keep on using it and buying it.

It’s not the size of the library that counts so much in Kontakt, it’s the extensive scripting. Those libraries aren’t going to cost $10 - $40 because the scripting is a huge amount of work.

You’re just typical of some of the people here - you can’t even DISCUSS improvements to the interface. You act like Renoise cannot be criticised - or try to silence ‘dissent’ - and then you say that you hardly use Renoise any more, and that you think it isn’t a good DAW any more! Hilarious!

44

hmyes i noticed that too many times now…

and the announce of redux is imho just like a confession that its not possible to improve renoise the way it needs to be! i know, hard words again but the future will proof that statement! at least you can make music with renoise, thats a fact but the differences to other daws getting bigger and bigger (less functionality!). i could cry about that, because renoise is basically such a great software…

45

I agree, you can still do in Renoise 3 what you used to do in 2.8, but I think the workflow is the most important thing of all, and I don’t see any improvements have been made in the actual interface.
It’s clear that there are many intelligent contributors to this forum who come up with really good ideas, new ways of laying out things in Renoise and new ways of doing things - this is where the devs should be getting their ideas from, and then asking us if we want them implemented.

46

LOL @ People on Renoise forums wanting it to be like Buzz, and people on Buzz forums wanting it like Renoise. :rolleyes:

47

I don’t know what’s your dayjob, but how would you like to be forced to ask someone of their opinions to every goddamn decision you have to take, every f’ing time? I’d quit in a few days. ;)

48

If I was creating a piece of software to sell to people, you’re damn right I’d be asking my customers what they wanted…

Never heard of Microsoft? The Ribbon? Windows 8? Hello?

49

Do you even read what you type ?
I am not saying do not discuss, i am saying moaning non stop achieves nothing, you are not being objective here, you are just saying “You should have give me a Buzz/Renoise hybrid”
I have never tried to silence dissent, i am straight up asking you why you are constantly moaning and being very very angry
to which again you ignore the large portion of these comments
Well done, i hope that attitude gets you the Buzz/Renoise hybrid you believe you richly deserve, it wont but hey lets all hope for you

Should people stop buying Renoise and let it die ?
Well yes of course, if it is not doing what you want from it then yes STOP BUYING IT , who is being all ‘renoise is my religion’ now ?
Have you ever seen a single memeber of the Renoise team say “You HAVE to buy Renoise” no you haven’t and in fact it is more common for them to say “It isn’t working for you, look elsewhere”
It is just a tool, nothing more nothing less, if your hammer stops working you move on and buy a new one
Get over yourself and your “Everybody who disagrees with me is wrong, they are biggots, they want Renoise to be a religion, no they want Renoise to die, meh meh meh” attitude

50

Yes, but you probably also had a lot of choices to make too and i bet if you had a large user group you would have someone who wanted it differently.
BTW i have been a sworn customer of Microsoft since MS-DOS, but i don’t like Windows 8, they didn’t ask me…or maybe i was just too lazy to answer. :lol:

51

Do you even care that a lot of users do like the new interface? You talk about it, that everyone is against it.
Do a poll and check if indeed the most users are frustrated as you are.

52

I have nothing against the new interface, some things have been moved onto different tabs, no big deal. I am complaining about the Pattern Matrix, that’s it. That’s the one thing that affects me, and plenty of other people (read the pinned thread on the Arranger and see how many people say they agree and want a Buzz sequencer…)

53

While I see the Phrases feature in Renoise 3.0 as more akin to an arpegiator than perhaps the way you see it, I totally agree that Renoise needs a pattern sequencer similar to the one in Buzz (perhaps also borrowing the Block feature from Reason). This would make Renoise instantly 10 times more useful and enjoyable, 100 X if the ability to layer audio tracks into the pattern sequencer is included. The pattern matrix is largely useless for the type of music I write (though I’m sure some people get a lot of use out of it), and the lack of a decent full-screen pattern sequencer in Renoise means I usually end up exporting patterns etc to another DAW to sequence the song and layer audio tracks. I’d rather do it all from within Renoise, and a decent pattern sequencer would go a long way towards that goal.

Apart from the lack of a proper pattern sequencer/arranger and audio tracks, I really like the new interface in 3.0 :D

54

I’d love to see improved pattern sequencing and audio tracks.

I’m also content at present to have a genuinely improved UI, some new features, and most importantly, nothing royally broken from what it was before.

As a developer myself, I know that sometimes you have to tear down the existing code and rebuild the existing features so that the program can grow in the future. Sometimes you have to re-pour the foundation before you can build a better house. And judging by the history of 2.x, I have a decent amount of faith that that is what is happening here.

I’ve never used Buzz, but I can say that I consider the underlying principle of this vitriolic but valuable thread one worth paying attention to: “More visibility to the user, without losing the essential tracker workflow.” Frame that and put it on the wall as a mission statement for all the 3.x revisions to come, because it’s a great purpose to pursue.

I don’t want Renoise to be just another DAW, but I do know that I recognize moments when using it where I am accommodating myself to the machine too much - holding things in my head because there’s no other place to put them. And in my developer day job, this is where I’d write myself a function or macro, to encapsulate that stuff in my head. Something that lets me make that opaque corner of what I am working on more transparent. And I wish for the same in my creative workflow. If or when you can find a way to make that more of a reality in Renoise, you shall hear cheering from the 4 corners of the globe.

Meanwhile, thanks for not screwing it up. :)

Finally, for what it’s worth, I am genuinely excited about Redux. Not because I want to drop Renoise into another DAW like a barnacle on the ass of a flatulent whale, but because I see a lot of opportunity to use it in places where sequencing is non-existent or highly tedious (I’m looking at you, Max/MSP). I like the idea of Redux becoming the ultimate Korg Wavestation-style sequenced wavetable oscillator and audio sample Swiss Army knife of my giddy sound design dreams. Make it so.

And maybe, if Redux hits that sweet spot I am hoping it will hit, that mission statement should be “More visibility AND flexibility to the user, without losing the essential tracker workflow.”

I’ll support that.

55

And how many years did it took Microsoft before their software became solid stable, secured and working?

You know what i think is the most frustrating for Buzz users here?
They are frustrated by the fact Buzz is still a piece of instable shit and underdeveloped and most likely Buzz users feel frustrated that it isn’t Buzz that is being actively developed and stabilized but Renoise.
I bet that if Buzz was completely stable, Buzz users would most likely never have stepped away from it.

But i can share my frustrations about Buzz regarding the crashing and loosing large amounts of work because of it, the instability really drove me away from it, but i’m not sharing my frustrations here. This should frankly be a problem of the Buzz developers, not Renoise developers

56

I never really bother with the pattern matrix myself but one thing I recalled, aren’t patterns in Buzz tied to instruments? I may be remembering wrong, I had stability issues with Buzz and never got very deep into it. If Renoise did have an overhaul of it’s arranger I’d rather it be more like FL where a pattern can contain anything, even a whole song with many instruments. This would also be necessary in order for the patterns to behave as patterns have until now, if you preferred one pattern at a time it would still work as Renoise does now

TBH the only thing I’m really envious of Buzz on is that machine interface…

57

There is a lot to like about Buzz, but I can’t get it to produce any sound on my machine and it is a bit rough around the edges. I’d like to see Renoise borrow more ideas from a wide range of other DAWs, because there are a lot of good ideas that would help round it out not just as an excellent tracker, but a self contained cross-platform modular studio and DAW.

As far as overhauling Renoise’s pattern arranger, I would prefer it to be modeled on Blocks in Reason (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6UFCdD4Lyk, http://www.propellerheads.se/products/reason/index.cfm?fuseaction=get_article&article=features_recording, although I’d be quite happy with a Buzz-style arranger as well.

58

Yes, patterns in Buzz are ‘tied’ to instruments - I don’t see how that is a bad thing. You need to use Buzz for a week or so to fully understand why the Sequence Editor is so good. Of course, it should be possible to have a pattern contain many instruments, it’s only arbitrary that it currently only contains one instrument. If you could group multiple patterns together (each having one instrument) into one big pattern, that would be nice too, so you could split them up if you wanted to. (The same as you can group tracks in Renoise, perhaps.)

You could have three levels of ‘zoom’:
1: A pattern with one instrument
2: A group of patterns
3: Sequence editor, into which you could put patterns of (1) or groups of (2).

I was trying to write a song in FL Studio last night, and realised why I love trackers so much - trying to use the piano roll to duplicate some notes and then move them forward in the timeline was a nightmare, trying to get the timing right was such a pain, using the mouse, constantly having to select the ‘select’ tool’, then the ‘pen’ tool, etc. Whereas in a tracker it would just require pressing ‘Insert’ or ‘Delete’ a few times, to shift the notes up and down. The same thing applies to the Playlist in FL Studio, it doesn’t compare to the Buzz Sequence Editor.

The disadvantage of Reason’s Blocks is (unless I’m mistaken) they don’t have names (just like the Pattern Matrix), and they can’t be added, deleted and moved using the keyboard (please correct me if I’m wrong, because I haven’t used Reason for years).

59

Viewing and working with all notes from all instruments on one page is one of the biggest advantages of a tracker UI vs a piano roll, voluntarily sacrificing that is kind of like getting the worst of both worlds. One instrument per pattern is also less flexible, multiple instruments per pattern still allows you to use one per pattern if that’s your thing but the inverse is not true.

Those things in FL do have hotkeys, you don’t have to use the mouse to change tools and you can duplicate selections easily enough too(ctrl+left click drag, ctrl+B ). Actually there is really no reason to ever use the select tool, it’s there for people who don’t want to learn/use keyboard shortcuts.

Not to be a dick and say “if you love Buzz so much why not use Buzz”, but why not just use Buzz? It seems to be the program you’re most comfortable with and most knowledgeable about. Renoise is more of a traditional tracker(with modernized capabilities), the single column pattern sequencer is kind of a core part of it’s identity…

60

You are mistaken in one respect: in Reason 7 you certainly can give blocks (equivalent to Renoise patterns) names (eg verse, chorus, whatever you want), and it is a fantastic way to work on the building blocks of a song before arranging them in order and overlaying them with non-block elements. Take a look at the tutorial on YouTube linked in my previous post or download the demo. Reason does not have particularly good workflows for those who would rather not use the mouse too much.

Agree any implementation of a similar feature would need to be usable with keyboard commands, as supported by Buzz. The lack of a tracker interface, overly skeuomorphic UI and lack of support for VST keep me from shelling out for a licence. But I am all for taking the best features from a range of programs and smashing them into a program that can do more of what I want in one package. There are bits of Buzz that I like, along with bits of Reason, Ableton Live, FL Studio and others which would round out Renoise nicely if borrowed judiciously.

61

Can you make a video showing how you use it? It isn’t fast or fluent for me, what am I doing wrong?

To all those wishing to silence discussion about improving the arranger - I’m not talking about Buzz, I’m talking about the WAY one thing is done in Renoise, which could be vastly improved, and the perfect example of how to do it is shown in Buzz, so obviously I’m going to use that as an example.

So far, NOBODY has created a video showing how they use the Pattern Matrix to such grand effect, despite so many protesting that it’s wonderful…

Another person trying to silence discussion… Are you really that incapable of reading opposing points of view? Why are you posting stuff about what happens in the Buzz forum on this forum? “demands” indeed…