Advice On Structuring Songs

My Songs often end up being really all over the place, and I have a real problem structuring them.
I was wondering if anyone has any tips?

Because of tracking patterns (as opposed to sequencing a whole song,) I often make songs where the patterns don’t really tie together.

I’m not looking for a ‘stick to the ABAAB structure’ or anything, just any ways people have that help tie their songs together, rather than sticking random patterns together for the sake of it.

little help?

you could copy the structure from another song to get you started.
write it down on a piece of paper and use that as reference

I don’t really know what you’re talking about when you’re saying all over the place. Your songs start up with one flavor and end with the same one. When I read all over the place, I thought you meant complete changes in sounds from one section to the next and ridiculous tempo jumps.

I like Antarctic Bass and Perhaps called rader towers.

i know what you are saying.
previously for this i would use really long patterns for just this reason, but i was also using a double of 182, which 364 can’t be controlled with pattern commands. i like the control under 256 bpm brings.
so now i sometimes use semi long patterns like 128 or 256 for fasster stuff. though for the most part now i mainly stick to 64 for fast stuff and as i’ve slowed my bpm a lot and began writing like 4 bars per pattern, and am using the lpb around 16 for fast stuff and about 4-8 for slower stuff. i fit a lot more in the slower stuff now, and the faster stuff gets sectioned and reused a lot.

also, thinking about the patterns in terms of being reusable unless you want something extra in that pattern is a good tested tracker method. cuz then in renoise you just make it unique, when you want something extra.

These are both good suggestions, thanks.
Of course in electronic music, it’s not always easy to hear where the phrases start and end.

Meow: Thanks! The thing is though, that most of the time my method appears to be to make a phrase I like, develop it, then I get a bit lost and start adding bits and 0e01 for the sake of it, rather than where it’s needed.
I’m trying to start a method of writing stuff where I only include what is necessary, not mnml, just without extra junk.
Maybe this song is a better example of a lack of structure.

thanks for the replies guys.


Haha I think in exact the same way :)
Try ‘feeling’ your track and ‘feel’ where it ought to be going next…

I try to make the song about the MOMENT and try to accentuate it
with ‘the rest’ (variations, cutting pieces away, modulations, automations, etc).

fucking guruh.

I wish I knew what you did in your tracks on your myspace. :dribble:

There should never be a formula though, as cheesy as that sounds. The idea of “moments” leaves your music always in the same concept, a lead up to something… It will also be frustrating when you find you cant create the “moment”. Sometimes, there doesnt even need to be one.
The song should write itself and sound exactly how you want it to. Don’t settle for something because you cant be arsed to get it right, and dont just throw loads of shit at the wall hoping some of it will stick.
Just smear it on, in little patterns, till you get one big potent,stinky wall.

This is true. However, if I can’t create a ‘moment’ in a track, I will not finish it because I’ll lose interest.
A ‘moment’ to me is not neccesarilly a ‘climax’, it can be ‘that melody’ or ‘that synth’ or ‘that vocal’.
Whatever floats the boat, makes the track stand out, gives it the groove you crave for every time you
listen to it.

Oi and thanks meow, haha! :D All I can say is: trust your own ears more than others’.

I understand that, but you can still write tracks that do absolutely nothing in terms of composition and they are still just as gripping. I spose moments can exist even in arrangement though.

Something I learnt recently that is good for structuring songs:
Titling patterns roughly is a good way to organize yourself.

You could try rendering patterns, like mini arrangments of different parts and load them into a horizontal sequencer and arrange away in there. i rekon abletons good for that like

Structure songs like you’d structure a sand castle… build it up a bit at a time… have some drops, like moats… and some peaks, like the towers… then when you’re all done building it… TEAR IT ALL DOWN!!! MWUHAHAHAHAHAH!!!

in song settings there is the super cool ‘highlight every xx blocks’ option. set it to 4 or something.

Screw that… set it to 13. Songs always sound better in decitriplets.

whatever floats your boat

Sometimes it surprises me BYTE’s boat is still floating ;)

  1. Drugs r bad… mmmkay?
  2. ???
  3. Profit! :yeah: