I’m not reading that essay.
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Is a week enough to know? What I remember from my childhood is that you are pretty much in fantasy land once you get over the hurdle, I don’t believe anyone then will ever leave the tracker concept behind.
The HEX concept is a bit mind-bending to the average Joe and probably a larger entry of barrier than we think, on this day and age they’ll just click/swipe on to the next DAW.
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Quality of life updates are a given, yes. VST3 support took way too long to be implemented. And there a whole host of things that could be improved, of course. But as it stands, Renoise is more than capable of doing what it sets out to do. As in, there is nothing missing that 's keeping you from making full albums in Renoise.
Excellent point indeed!
I can see that as being true. I wonder though, how many (new) people are embracing the tracker aspect of Renoise. By which I mean, do they even use the sample commands? Or is it just a vertical scrolling alternative looking piano roll used to trigger VST instruments? In which case you don’t have a lot to do with hexadecimal.
It’s been a long time since that week, but I guess this is a subject that many people are interested in.
You don’t have to use a drill to eat pasta, nor does a fork on a drill make it more useful.
You can use anything to make a great song.
If you learn some computer science and MIDI standards, you will understand the rationale behind Renoise and Tracker.
Age is not a factor.
You are not completely confined to the Tracker interface as there is automation, etc.
This is a good one. With this, REAPER and plugdata, I feel we can cover a lot of ground in the software environment.
@taktik I have purchased Renoise and Redux.
Thanks for making them. Really useful tools. I appreciate it.
And if you have extra power, please make the sampler property a macro or add a jump command!
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I consider myself new to tracking - Renoise was my first tracker (I also own Redux). Previously I used regular DAWs and worked more with recorded music. I like idea of tracker, feel I can do things quicker with keyboard.
But I rarely use sample commands. In my recent song I do it once to reverse hihat sample. Generally it’s quite easy to reproduce sample commands with note repeats or sliced samples. Or even render to sample.
To me sample commands that are useful for breakbeats are not a selling point of Renoise. I can live without them. I’d say ability to use keyboard, to see note names instead of piano roll (though if somebody invented a way to precisely move the note in time without typing delays that’d be cool) and SAMPLER are main selling points.
The music I create ranges from orchestral to rap beats.
To me Renoise is rather DAW / Sampler / Sequencer. I use some VST instruments, but generally create my own instruments/drum sets.
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I started with Renoise circa ~2019 and use a ‘hybrid’ workflow: mostly VSTi + render to instrument function to ‘consolidate’ the patches/presets I make. It’s the best of both worlds, imo. You have all the fancy stuff that Vital and Surge have to offer (just to mention a couple plugins) plus the ability to convert them into instruments and go crazy with pattern FX.
It may look counterintuitive for outsiders, but I also really like the precision when programming my automation in the tracker sequencer (and here Hex is really handy). In my brain, this works better than graphic automation (speaking of which, I never use the graphic automation in Renoise).
Making patches in my favorite VSTis and then resampling them into Renoise instruments is my favorite workflow ever. No other DAW matches the creative momentum provided by tracking w/ keyboard only. It’s buttery smooth and also very open to subversion, specially through pattern manipulation (I’d marry the ZLXX command if it was a person).
The learning curve is steep only at the beginning. After learning hexadecimal and a few keyboard shortcuts, it’s easier and more intuitive than lots of other DAWs.
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Amen, the only familiarity with Hex was from my old PlayStation GameShark. I was a traditional DAW kind of guy, but now after roughly over a year with Renoise, I could never go back, that precision is 
. I spend time finding plug-in patches I like and turning them into xrni’s because the commands and sampler are much more flexible. I do love the graphic automation though and being able to use the keyboard to key your points/slopes in is so much better than using a mouse to do it
Say, that plug-in rendering needs to be a background process…maybe in 3.4, for those times when you just want to focus on library building or continuing to create
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I did that. I wanted a sequencer that would handle both MIDI and samples, without the limitations of LMMS. Had no interest at all in trackers, but Renoise was the only viable option, so I sucked it up and learned how to use that style of interface. Now, like icasiino, I love the precision and flexibility.
Hex doesn’t bother me. It isn’t that complicated; like converting to/from binary, it just takes a little mental adjustment the first couple of times.
I think confusing is creeping in with the term “DAW”, where people use it to mean so many different things, up to and including the idea that it’s an app that encompasses all possible music-production functions. Personally, it calls to mind a recording and editing suite that may also have other capabilities.
Each app has its strengths and weaknesses, and some things that they don’t do at all. To me, Renoise is a sequencer, and an extremely capable one at that; calling it a DAW just sets expectations that it can’t meet. As I use sequenced audio as the basis of my music, layering live instruments over the top, I use Ardour for recording and editing - it does a brilliant job of that, no matter how underwhelming I find it as a sequencer.
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I disagree. Renoise is a digital audio workstation, and a unique one. People who limit the idea of a DAW to a Protools-like interface just need to get out more. Not all DAWs use that interface, nor do they have to.
It does do far more than a sequencer. It’s unique ability is you can really find a way to work with it for whatever you want to do. It’s got a fantastic sampler; it can be its own synth; powerful sequencing on multiple levels; massive precision.
Back in the 90s, even then I was able to use Trackers to create songs with guitars, rapping, singing - because a Tracker really gives you options. Then it was the only option. Cakewalk etc. was an expensive set up, but I got brilliant results from free software on a cheap PC.
In my view, when it comes to upgrades, Renoise doesn’t need to bring in what other DAWs have, except in maybe some technical compatibility issues that all DAWs need to keep up with anyway. All Renoise really needs to do is continue to innovate on its own workflow. The workflow is already exceptionally powerful, and I keep trying with other DAWs but come back to Renoise. That could be familiarity given my history, but I am not someone who is scared of change. I just find Renoise makes me a better musician, provides precision in editing, and is a heck of a lot faster in creating songs. Renoise for me is an instrument all of its own that complements the other instruments I can play, and lets me put them all together. It’s a DAW that works like an instrument. It’s not like other DAWs which I find encourage a hundred plugins to fix all your problems. Rather, it seems to get you to focus on the actual music making.
Someone who tries it for a week and wants to leave complaining is, in my view, someone who didn’t want to use any creativity in making music but just wants to push “record”, “stop”, “run plugin”. 
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Are you a bot? What the fuck are you talking about (sometimes)?
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Its the troll of the forum ,he is back and come to think of it he never really left
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Multiple aliases this time too I’ve noticed. I was about to observe his posts are like AI brain farts, but i cant detect any intelligence.
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This is what trolls do, they seek attention all the time so lets not give it to him this time
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In contrary to those who need to hide for whatever reason, just like you, we already showed our real faces (yes indeed, plural), just like my avatar and @stoiximan 's former avatar. And everybody who’s familiar with this forum also knows where to find a current picture of @stoiximan Anyway, if you’re posting shit like in the past, I’ll put your new account on the ignore list just like all your other accounts. This is your last chance to behave like a real member and normal human. I would recommend to start with writing in whiole sentences that always match the topics 
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You meaned TNT and FFX or ?
Sorry for this kind of post. I’m to old for this. But his “Plans for Renoise” Thread amuse and pleasure me excellent. I personally dont expect a one futhermore thing from renoise.
happy tracking 
I’m out again…
I have been using Renoise since version 2.5 (around 2010 or so) now, and for me it is mainly that Renoise in some aspects is already 95% there, but seemingly refuses to go the last 5% to actually get there. Take the sampler for instance. It is very capable and has some very advanced features other samplers don’t have (phrases for instance). Yet, some of the most basic features that exist in other samplers since 30 years are not implemented. To me that is just frustrating to see sometimes, knowing what huge potential there is, especially since Redux exists, to become a universally useful tool that has a place in all kinds of setups, but is neglected for the sake of staying a niche product. Same with the whole piano roll discussion, which in itself feels absolutely ridiculous to me. It’s an objectively useful alternative view of note data, but its addition is perceived as some kind of threat to Renoise’s niche existence. Anyways, I still use it for what it is, but for most of the time using I have been waiting for it to finally fully become what, at least to me, it was clearly heading towards.
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No, my meaning is same like in past, you can read it in this thread. But i learned something. I learned that this Softwareprocucers and much community people are not worth the investement of my personal lifetime. The officials dont react on any suggestions, and in the forum 85% only defend her claims and opinions and denied suggestions in generally.
I asked Taktik for a few more colorvalues for better theming support. Even that was too much. His anwser was, we have what we have and its ok. More colorvalues would make Themecreation more complex. This may be so @Taktik, but it will make the visual ergonimics in relation to the implementation effort much better.
3-4 Colorvalues are programming effort nearly 0! And with a simple flag in the XML there would no compatibiliy problems between old and new themes.
This reaction shows me changing is not wanted. And it is Ok. It’s his Software, he developed it. We only are Customers pay for it. So i has accepted this and deal with it. And when you need other features that renoise dont have, dont wait and migrate to other software. This is my personally suggestion for you. But if you want waste your lifetime beeing here doing senseless discussions, then feel free to do it!
happy tracking
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I dont want Renoise to “stay niche” or be some little-used also-ran. I don’t think a piano roll should be the focus is all, given that it is a tracker - i think more DSP and expanding the sampler’s capabilities is much more important. Thats the thing about humanity, we’re all different.
Edit: to clarify, looking at what Polyend did with the tracker, I would like to see the following added to the sampler:
- Granular playheads;
- Wavetable playback;
- Modulatable sample start and end points.
I think that would add more value to Renoise than shoehorning in an alternate note view natively in the code base, which presumably would need significant work as it would affect the UI and need a massive amount of work, testing etc.
Again, you might want piano roll more than a more robust sampler. I hate how advocates of piano roll just try to shoot down people who would rather see focus applied elsewhere as people stuck in their ways or otherwise having a desire to keep Renoise as a niche product. Its a cheap tactic and its unfair.
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