Allow sending a send to itself


(kdgh) #1

If possible, I would love to send audio signal to itself. So put a send on send and let that send sent to itself to create a feedback loop. I know this can blast some ears for those who are not aware of the effect, but Dub (Techno) is highly keen on this technique. Something I would love to be able to recreate.

So basically; allow to disable the error “Sending a send to itself is not allowed”. Maybe make an “Are you sure you want to send a send to itself? y/n”. Thanks a zillion!

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(lilith) #2

I can imagine that you will not get the desired effect, but just a blast of noise as it’s not analog hardware.


(kdgh) #3

Works perfectly fine in other DAW’s such as Ableton for example. The output of a send will be routed back into its input to again calculate the output. Don’t see what that should be a blast of noise. Likely when you keep the signal routed back in static, but I would like to automate the amount of input of creating the feedback loop. This can make interesting expressions. Soundtoys actually developed the “Recycle” button in their Effect Rack plugin. This is basically the feedback loop, but it would be nice to do this with other fx. Native renoise effects for example.

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(lilith) #4

Ok… what happens with two sends?

Send1 out -> Send 2 in ->Send1 in


(kdgh) #5

Unfortunately, you can’t route to a prior send as well in Renoise. The way you describe the situation you’ll create a “bigger” feedback loop. As in, there’ll be more effects involved if send 2 has a fx inserted. It’ll change the feedback loop quite a bit as there are more fx/calculations involved. Imagine a feedback loop with multiple fx’s. So let’s say send 1 delay > send 2 reverb > send 3 chorus > send 1 delay, and automate the parameters with lfo’s or envelopes. You’ll manage to make your own drone machine with the help of fx and feedback.


(Zer0 Fly) #6

Renoise supports no audio feedback.

Digital feedback is way different than analog feedback btw. Digital feedback will always have a delay/comb filter thing going on. Analog feedback is more like a weird distortion thing.

Certain feedback loops can indeed result in dangerous noise. For example if in the loop is only a gain element that is boosting, the boosting will repeat infinitely thus creating a big explosion of noise. In analog world the effect would be mitigated by the circuits’ clipping elements, in digital it will be the hard comb filter explosion of death to your speakers. That is maybe why renoise has feedback prevention inside its mixer.


(kdgh) #7

Than the following question is, why is this possible in DAW’s like Ableton for example? They seem to be able to sending a send to itself with interesting results when using effects. It’s disabled at first to keep your ears save, but for those who know what they’re doing it’s possible to enable these knobs. It makes not really sense to me why Renoise can’t allow this in terms of audio routing. Obviously the results may differ in the software/hardware realm, but that doesn’t needs to be the answer to why it’s not possible, right?
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