"Automatic Round Robin" with drum machine plug-in / effect?

Basically, what I’m looking for is an ”emulator” which make each drum hit unique. I imagine a feature where I can import samples / GM sets and then ”life” should then appear automatically. Which drum machine / effect plug-in can do this ”on the fly”? After some research, looking at videos etc, I have not really got any clear candidate regarding this. *****

I’m not primarily heading for libraries containing hundreds of GBs filling the hard drive, if todays digital technology can achieve the same effect with the combination of few samples + some kind of ”internal synthesis”.

Not sure if the standard effects like phaser, chorus, flanger etc really is a substitute for this but rather a complement. First of all, those effects are not random enough and instead of each hit it changes over time (which will make for instance a snare sound different from its initial attack to the release).

The LFO randomizer in Renoise/Redux set at the lowest frequency possible within one note range on the other hand, seems to do the trick very well with slight shiftings in cents (along with some volume randomization). I love the way I can spice up static drums samples like that to avoid the ”machine gun effect”, but it’s a bit time-consuming.

I hope I’ve explained my question well enough, and if you think I’m missing out on something please fill in. I’m curious to hear about how your ”drum solutions” look like, with Renoise/Redux or not.

***** For instance, I’ve read through a review of “The 15 Best Drum Plug-Ins” (Link). However the feature in question isn’t mentioned in either of them. So I’m getting the feeling I’m either 10 years too late and this is a standard thing for any plug-in or 10 years too early and none have it. :lol:

brining life into drums with the samplerfunction of renoise… not to difficult… it even has the roundrobin function you are talking about.
And your in luck. I am having trouble sleeping… so i am going to spend a few minutes to type in a very long boring story about how me personally do it…

So lets begin our journey into living drums with what is round-robin:
With RoundRobin usually is means : Picked from a rotating pool … in this context… roundrobin in samplers they mean "a pool of samples where you can samples are picked from.
So thats a nice start :slight_smile:

You can enable this feature, by adding a kick + snare + hihat in the sampler… and in the keyzone editor choose “create drumkit” … now each sample gets its own keyzone, which has a global option for overlapping samples.
this means: that if you select this option, you can choose between “play all” or “Cycle” or "Random … in the case of living drumsound… you probably want to select random (where some sample is chosen from the overlapping keyzones) …

Now you got 2 options:
either find a multi-sample-snarekit… or create one…

Lets create one:
You start out with 1 LONGSOUNDING SNARE DRUM… with a FAT attack… and a LONG tail…
and you make a few copies… Make sure, that every copies keyzone is overlapping the others…
Now you can individually edit the snare sample… Cut a bit of the front… and a bit of the tail… Now each sample should sound the same… but slightly difrent.
now load an EQ on the trackchannel… change eq a bit, to shape snare sound…
in the sample-editor, there is a button that “renders the vst fx into the sample” … use it…
select other snare…
change eq slightly
render it
etc etc
now all your snares should sound, “the same” but difrent… and if you play with your snare key, it should automagicly choose a difrent variety…
You can do the same with your hihat. and your kick…

Now go to your modulation setup of this sampleset…
create 3 modulation-tracks…
call them kick or hihat or snare…
attach the correct samples to the correct modulation tracks (so all your snares, to your snare modulation, all hihats to hihats modulation. etc etc)
add an ADSR to each VOLUMEmodulation… Set the attack of the kick as fast as possible… but set the attack of the hihat and the snare, slightly slower then kick. and add a very slow moving random lfo to it… with just minimal amplitude… dont forget to select the * sample infront of the random lfo… else your modulation will be weird/non existent…
on the PITCHmodulation track… also add a slow moving random lfo with very small amplitude…

if done correctly… every sample played will be slightly difrent pitched (but almost unhearable) then the others…
The volume/amplitude will differ because of the lfo… the pitch willl differ slightly because of lfo.
a difrent sample is used because of the overlap/roundrobin feature…

Now create a phrase… and dont forget to set “transpose” to “none” … else things get difficult with no sounding drums if you press the wrong key…
sidenote when using beta3.1 you cant use “the sample-column” as this de-activates the keyzone function, thus dissabling half the work you just done"
Enter a nice rythm…
to help you started do kick hihat snare hihat kick hihat… on each even step :slight_smile:
now add some “ghost notes” for the snare and the hihat… in between the just entered rythm
give them a lower velocity/volume. and just for the fun of it… in the FXlane put 0Y60

which means “maYbe” play the notes… (so the ghostnotes get played randomly two)

If you play the phrase… you should hear a nice “lively” drumrythm… but you can even “humanize” it…
Select entire phrase and press Ctrl+H … which humanizes your stuff…

And yes, more can be achieved, by using fx…
so go to the fx page… add 3 fx tracks… call them kick snare hihat… and connect the correct samples to the correct fx-track.
kicks love compression… snares love compression… hihats do not (atleast not this stage)
put a bit reverb on the snare… but not enough to “be heard” but just enough to be “there”
Now to make things gel a bit…
Put a signal follower on the kick-fx…
connect it with a gainer on the snare-fx.
adjust the signal follower, that each time the kick triggers, the snare tracks gainer goes down just a few db…
put a signal follower behind the gainer on the snaretrack… and a gainer on the hihatfx-track…
do same thing…

if done correctly, again… it will change the sound a bit while playing… thicker kick gets difrent snaresound then a small kick…

Panning your samples… also helps, to push the realness a bit…
look at pictures of drumkit… snares usually on the left… hihats to… toms from the leftmiddle to the lowerright… ridecymbal on the right… crash on the left…
funny enough… audiences are facing you… so they hear this in reverse :slight_smile: for them the snare is on the right, if i am not mistaken…
and yes, if you have multiple snares "you can pan them slightly appart)
for example if snare1 is left34 . snare2 can be left 30 or something in between

Combine all this, with lots of tinkering…
and on the main-channel mixer… you can add all the stuff you normally would put on your drums

like a compressor, or reverb you really hear… little bit of distortion… whatever floats your boat…

and well…
thats how me personally would do “living drums” within renoise… without a drummachine-vst or a sampler-vst or a hardware drummachine…

enjoy

You will like ‘Stepper’ modulation in 3.1.

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Thanks for sharing your tips & tricks.

I’m sure this approach gives you more control on a detail level. But as I stated in the thread start, I was looking for a VST / AU plug-in which can do stuff like this on the fly. I was hoping someone could guide me towards a certain drum machine (commercial I suppose), or an insert in the effect chain, or some other handy solution I’m just missing out.

So, therefore I’m not sure this is the way to go with all projects although it’s a fun one, at least not when the idea is to get stuff done more quickly. That is also the reason I posted this in the Off Topic forum and not Tips & Tricks / Beginner Questions etc.

I really appreciate your input though, and I might come back to it when I feel there’s a lot of time with a certain project. :slight_smile:

You will like ‘Stepper’ modulation in 3.1.

I’ve tried it, but I think the random LFO setting I brought up is more efficient - no need to draw stuff etc.

Yeah I was a little OT, sorry… like i typed in my monologue, couldnt sleep… but i was not that awake either… (fell asleep after writing the text… so hooray it worked :slight_smile:

I dont know a pluggin that does what you want… but, i might have some happy news… you could treat your instrument as a vst… as in… make a really complicated one. with all the fancy tricks done automagically…
and when you do your next project… recycle the instrument. but not the samples… great starting point…

my codingskils suck ass… but i am sure if your smart enough… u can use lua-scripting to create multiple samples from 1 sample… for the roundrobin thing…

Maybe this plugin: SKnote - PolyJam

http://www.sknote.it/PolyJam.htm

description:

Stereo drums loops can be quite flat. PolyJam adds a set of sound variations , based on peak detection and on a deterministic sequence.

It means that drums can sound exactly the same each time we press play.

Yeah I was a little OT, sorry… like i typed in my monologue, couldnt sleep… but i was not that awake either… (fell asleep after writing the text… so hooray it worked :slight_smile:

I dont know a pluggin that does what you want… but, i might have some happy news… you could treat your instrument as a vst… as in… make a really complicated one. with all the fancy tricks done automagically…
and when you do your next project… recycle the instrument. but not the samples… great starting point…

my codingskils suck ass… but i am sure if your smart enough… u can use lua-scripting to create multiple samples from 1 sample… for the roundrobin thing…

No worries!

And yes, I had the idea along the these lines more or less… Something like a template? It’s a great idea hypothetically. Then again, modulations are like mixing, the sounds will probably need different work for each project. Maybe there are no shortcuts after all. But for a starting point, yeah, I should look into that.

The LUA script idea might be overkill, lol.

Maybe this plugin: SKnote - PolyJam

http://www.sknote.it/PolyJam.htm

description:

Stereo drums loops can be quite flat. PolyJam adds a set of sound variations , based on peak detection and on a deterministic sequence.

It means that drums can sound exactly the same each time we press play.

(I got the exact same suggestion at Gearslutz.)

Thanks for your input. This one seems to work best on loops, however I’d like to control track by track or sample by sample.


On a general note: I’m not totally against libraries, as long as they aren’t so big and combined with smart synthesis which can emit round robin.

At the end of the day, maybe Redux is the best alternative so far, but I can’t find any drum machine collections in the .XRNI format. So, the work to get all the .WAV samples from various drum machines into the General Midi structure (so it can be combined with Logic Pro X Drummer for instance), will mean a few days of work on full-time lol.

Chris, do you know some drum-libraries which are 100% creative commons / free to use??
it might be fun for me to create a nice template… and just fill it with those drums…

The only drums i got available here, are commercial libraries i paid for… so i cant really use them (well i got a few of my own… but nobody would want them i think)

no promises, but should be fun on a rainy sunday…

Chris, do you know some drum-libraries which are 100% creative commons / free to use??
it might be fun for me to create a nice template… and just fill it with those drums…

The only drums i got available here, are commercial libraries i paid for… so i cant really use them (well i got a few of my own… but nobody would want them i think)

no promises, but should be fun on a rainy sunday…

I’m asking the same question, but we might hopefully have a starting point to solve this riddle - Check out my new topic. :slight_smile:

I like your idea, and I could do some MIDI mapping (like you I can’t promise either lol).

There is an older project which concern the MIDI mappingthis thread, where the thread started is said to have done exactly this already. However I tried them out, and unfortunately it appears these samples aren’t mapped correctly. Maybe it did work with some earlier Renoise version, this is not clear. The set to download is not as comprehensive as some of the sources I’ve mentioned in the new topic which I linked to though.

Also, If he used free sample sources isn’t affirmed either, although that may or may not be important. Can drum (single hits) samples be protected at all? Maybe you can take charge for the work and sweat to collect/sample instruments, but I doubt anyone would get into trouble for using the stuff in further commercial releases. Are there any documented lawsuits?