Check title / topic description, can it be fixed please?
Make the beginning of envelopes smoothed out more in your super-duber widening algorithm?
I like to automate the ‘width’ parameter of tracks a lot in my songs and when working on a track today, was searching for the culprit track glitch I was breaking my ears over. I should’ve known to look for the automation editor ‘width’ settings in my tracks…but it kept me busy for quite some time before I found it!
Check for yourself.
Load a sample in a track (preferably a long looping one for the sake of this example)
Go to the automation editor
Create an envelope for ‘width’
Press play & concentrate your hearing on the first second when the envelope rises.
Over here it glitches. Sometimes in a song the glitch is obscured by the sounds in other tracks, but standalone it should be noticeable.
edit:
Ok, very funny…now when I try a track with a different sample…it only clips when first having the envelope rise to the maximum than having the pattern start over again at minimum value. In other words, when switching between maximums…which is kind of understandable… but I sometimes also experience it at the beginning of the envelope. Don’t know why there is a difference
I don’t think this can be fixed/avoided in some non destructive way. You may try adding a notch filter which removes the undesired frequencies, but I doubt this can actually be caused by a bug rather than a natural consequence of the change of width.
Offtopic, but… I feel width is a bit dodgy anyway… Try playing a track using ‘width’ on yer regular soundsystem. I often found the sound was ‘cancelled’ on some (bigger) soundsystems, resulting in strange effects live: hey, where the hell is this-and-this sound?! Why not use the stereo-expander? My experience is that it’s far more ‘balanced’, or at least… it doesn’t disappear on certain systems. What’s the difference between the stereo-expander and the width-thing?
When shifting between maximums I can understand a click, but to hear one just at the start of applying it sounds like a bug to me. I’ll try you filter suggestion, but I don’t like the workaround
I also use the stereo expander, panning & sometimes team them all up, but for certain emphasis purposes and stereo placement in the mix, width has been ‘essential’ in my work-flow, for the sound I’m after.
About sound disappearing on large systems, all these widener effects are based on tiny delay / phase differences between channels I think, maybe these pa systems have some kind of ‘phase’ limiters on the master out? technical n00b reply
Hello NO! Like I said, I use it all the time…would mess up a lot of tracks!
Width: Surround alike effect that partly moves the phase of the signal to fool the brain. That’s also why its nearly not noticeable on PAs. You can create surround effects also from plain mono signals.
Stereo Expanders Expand: Simply boosts differences between the channels. Won’t do anything on mono signals.
Stereo Expanders Surround: Just like “Width”
The click comes from the fact that width is completely disabled at width 0 to avoid artifacts. So the width effect kicks in at “width > 0”.
Ideally we should have an on/off switch for the width, then a width amount slider to control it. On/Off can not be automated because it may click, while the amount can be automated. Not sure if thats really worth the troubles…
Ok, I’ll adjust envelopes till the artifacts are obscured by other tracks/sounds in the future. Maybe save for a solution when you’ve got too much time on your hands Not a big deal if this is to much trouble!
how about only going down to width 1? or 0.5 or something? if your not going all the way down to 0 then surely it shouldn’t turn it off/on thereby avoiding the clicks?
You mean some intermediate state just enough for clicks not to be audible, this sounds smart , I’ll try if it works…though after reading Botb’s post on sounds disappearing and remembering a similar live experience it might be better to lay of the width for a while.
Not a big deal if this is to much trouble!